Lost wire transfer - UPDATE

[justonwo]

I'm by no means the world's leading expert in wire transfers, but I've done a million of them all over the world in my business, so I've picked up a few things. Many times in international wire transfers there are intermediary banks, and it sounds like the money go stuck at one of those intermediary banks before being routed to the beneficiary's bank. In fact, many times those intermediaries will tack on an extra fee, leaving the recipient with less than you actually sent. In really sophisticated wire interfaces, you can actually specify who pays the intermediary bank fees should they charge them.

That being said, this is Wells Fargo's issue to solve. You are paying them to send money to a destination, and they failed in the job you are paying them to do. At this point, i would no longer accept waiting for the bank to return the funds. I would demand that WF immediately credit your account for the amount and then have them deal with the other bank about getting the money back. Any reasonable bank would accommodate such a request. Believe me, I have been through a lot of stuff with banks over the years.

You should be made whole immediately and accept nothing less. WF can then go through the hassle of getting the money back; when it's their own money they'll probably be more motivated anyway.

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by justonwo

I'm by no means the world's leading expert in wire transfers, but I've done a million of them all over the world in my business, so I've picked up a few things. Many times in international wire transfers there are intermediary banks, and it sounds like the money go stuck at one of those intermediary banks before being routed to the beneficiary's bank. In fact, many times those intermediaries will tack on an extra fee, leaving the recipient with less than you actually sent. In really sophisticated wire interfaces, you can actually specify who pays the intermediary bank fees should they charge them.

That being said, this is Wells Fargo's issue to solve. You are paying them to send money to a destination, and they failed in the job you are paying them to do. At this point, i would no longer accept waiting for the bank to return the funds. I would demand that WF immediately credit your account for the amount and then have them deal with the other bank about getting the money back. Any reasonable bank would accommodate such a request. Believe me, I have been through a lot of stuff with banks over the years.

You should be made whole immediately and accept nothing less. WF can then go through the hassle of getting the money back; when it's their own money they'll probably be more motivated anyway.

I've been tempted to push for this. Buoyed by your encouragement to do so, I will start hounding them to refund my money on Monday. Thank you.

[j3ffr0]

Had someone give me the wrong SWIFT routing and account number not too long ago. He was so confident in it that we went back and forth for a week before he checked and remembered that SWIFT had changed his account on him.

I told WF and they put a recall on the wire transfer. It took all of like 10 business days (whatever the upper limit is), but I did get the money back in the end. Good luck!

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by j3ffr0

Had someone give me the wrong SWIFT routing and account number not too long ago. He was so confident in it that we went back and forth for a week before he checked and remembered that SWIFT had changed his account on him.

I told WF and they put a recall on the wire transfer. It took all of like 10 business days (whatever the upper limit is), but I did get the money back in the end. Good luck!

I wish it were that simple. Marc has a form that he gives people (with his SWIFT #, address, etc) and he has given it to other people since giving it to me - their transactions have completed without issue.

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by Merlemantel

I've been tempted to push for this. Buoyed by your encouragement to do so, I will start hounding them to refund my money on Monday. Thank you.

At this point, it's safe for you to breathe a sigh of relief anyway. Your money will be returned. It would be a much bigger deal if it were routed to the wrong account. You'll get your money back. It'll just take some cage rattling. They'll credit your account if you demand that. Good luck and sorry this happened.

[Maryc-k]

This is a division of the OCC:

https://www.helpwithmybank.gov/file-...complaint.html

Tell the Wells Fargo people you’d be happy to file an Office of the Comptroller of Currency complaint and have that agency resolve your issue.

No bank wants the OCC in their hair. But if they continue to stonewall you, file the complaint. The Feds will resolve it for you.

The culture at Wells Fargo changed dramatically when they were bought by Norwest in 1998. They seemed to have become lost their concept of Customer Service.

Generally, since you have a receipt, they’d simply refund you money or resend the wire, offsetting it with an entry to their suspense account. But no one at Wells is willing to take the initiative, just in case the other bank doesn’t send the funds back that they’d received in error. We used to refer to these situations as a “hot potato,” but generally only if the amount was something like $50k.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Maryc-k

This is a division of the OCC:

https://www.helpwithmybank.gov/file-...complaint.html

Tell the Wells Fargo people you’d be happy to file an Office of the Comptroller of Currency complaint and have that agency resolve your issue.

No bank wants the OCC in their hair. But if they continue to stonewall you, file the complaint. The Feds will resolve it for you.

The culture at Wells Fargo changed dramatically when they were bought by Norwest in 1998. They seemed to have become lost their concept of Customer Service.

Generally, since you have a receipt, they’d simply refund you money or resend the wire, offsetting it with an entry to their suspense account. But no one at Wells is willing to take the initiative, just in case the other bank doesn’t send the funds back that they’d received in error. We used to refer to these situations as a “hot potato,” but generally only if the amount was something like $50k.

This is a great idea. Wells Fargo is in the deepest, darkest corner of the doghouse with the Fed and the OCC.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Merlemantel

The money is sitting in a bank in Canada, with no where to go, as it was somehow misrouted there. I don't know why. Wells Fargo has sent tht Bank two requests to return the money, but they have not responded. I have names, emails, etc., for a local advocate/manager assigned to the case.

Is Marc's operation big enough for him to have an accountant or some form of legal assistance/insurance? I'd argue (again...) that at this point the money is just as much his as it's yours, and in a sense this kind of nuisance is more likely to happen again to him than to you. So whatever form of financial/legal aide he already relies on would surely be more apt to get a bank in their country do what it has to do, figure out where/why the "misrouting" happened, etc.

(Not to mention that getting the money to continue its route to him seems preferable over having it returned to you!)

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by RJVB

Is Marc's operation big enough for him to have an accountant or some form of legal assistance/insurance? I'd argue (again...) that at this point the money is just as much his as it's yours, and in a sense this kind of nuisance is more likely to happen again to him than to you. So whatever form of financial/legal aide he already relies on would surely be more apt to get a bank in their country do what it has to do, figure out where/why the "misrouting" happened, etc.

(Not to mention that getting the money to continue its route to him seems preferable over having it returned to you!)

I dont think so. He runs a one-man shop. He has been so kind and generous. Honestly, Marc is such a standout human being. I will not saddle him as an individual with resolving this right now. He should be building guitars. I will keep pushing on my end.

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by Maryc-k

This is a division of the OCC:

https://www.helpwithmybank.gov/file-...complaint.html

Tell the Wells Fargo people you’d be happy to file an Office of the Comptroller of Currency complaint and have that agency resolve your issue.

No bank wants the OCC in their hair. But if they continue to stonewall you, file the complaint. The Feds will resolve it for you.

The culture at Wells Fargo changed dramatically when they were bought by Norwest in 1998. They seemed to have become lost their concept of Customer Service.

Generally, since you have a receipt, they’d simply refund you money or resend the wire, offsetting it with an entry to their suspense account. But no one at Wells is willing to take the initiative, just in case the other bank doesn’t send the funds back that they’d received in error. We used to refer to these situations as a “hot potato,” but generally only if the amount was something like $50k.

This is very helpful. Thank you.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Merlemantel

I will not saddle him as an individual with resolving this right now. He should be building guitars. I will keep pushing on my end.

Exactly why he might be hiring financial/legal aid. Of course you'll keep pushing on your end, but personally I'd ask him if he thinks that any pulling on his end would help...