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  #16  
Old 12-05-2014, 01:03 PM
dcopper dcopper is offline
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Matt, that is a nice solution and should work well. A neat little table and it looks really sturdy.

Probably even better if you put it a bit lower and use the wedge too.
Let me know how it works for you.

Last beach gig i did I took my Roland AC90 instead of the AER and really missed having the AER- so much better tone and just so much easier to transport too.
I also can do without preamps, effects and my pedal board and still be very happy with the effects on the AER.

davidc
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  #17  
Old 12-05-2014, 03:18 PM
jseth jseth is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by open-road-matt View Post
Hi jseth!
Thanks for your help again! When you say you had it 12' to the side of where you were sitting, was the amp behind you at all or directly to the side? How well could you hear yourself?

My ears have become more sensitive as time passes. I need to change my setup so I am no longer standing in front of my sound source like I have been doing with my Bose systems. My ears just can't take it anymore!

So I'm trying to picture different set ups where the amp is in a reasonable spot for me to hear what I need, without being too hard on my ears while providing good coverage of the space without being too loud for anyone listening. Maybe that's asking too much!

Also, how close was the amp to the audience? Using the mic stand mount puts the amp about 4' or so off the ground but like I said, I'd worry about it being at ear level for someone sitting too close.

Lots to ponder!

Thanks again,
Matt
Hi Matt!

Sounds like you are having a good time with the AER; glad to hear it...
As David mentioned, the sound definitely spreads out as you get away from the unit... and yes, it does have a lot to do with volume and the size of the room, there's just no getting around that.

Sounds like that table is a good thing to have; I played with a fellow who had the wedge gizmo for his Compact 60, and it is VERY useful. I have approximated the same effect by using the soft cover for the amp underneath the leading edge, but the wedge is mo' better...

As to where the amp was on that shallow wide stage? 12' to my left (always have the thing AWAY from the body of the guitar, same with the Bose systems; it just helps circumnavigate that low frequency "moan" that all acoustic guitars produce when you amplify them at any sort of sound pressure level... It was nearly at the same depth on the stage as I was, maybe a foot or so behind me. I then angled the AER so I could hear what I wanted, but the AER was primarily "cutting" across the stage into the room. There were around 80-100 people in this particular room, all drinking and making noise, PLUS the room itself was a nightmare to amplify sound! 20' ceilings, 20' wide, 100 +' deep, all brick and stone and tile floors... to top it off, the stage was bordered by a huge plate glass window that was the front/street window!

Amazingly, I had to turn the treble up more than I would have thought; I had a friend there who has played professionally for decades, and he was tweaking the eq slightly for me. Astonishing that the little AER could fill that entire room and not only cover it, but sound extremely good in the process! EVERY musician in the place wanted to know what the heck it was, and the host of the event wanted to play through my amp rather than use the huge PA with flying speakers that was pre-existing in the venue!

I have realized after 45 years of performing (I know, I know... it only took me 45 years; hey! I AM a guitar player, after all, so cut me some slack!) that there is ALWAYS ONE PERSON who REALLY cares what I sound like... and that would be ME! No matter what system I am using, being able to hear myself clearly is paramount, and generally my first concern... this is one of the reasons I love that Bose system - although I would NEVER put it directly behind me! Always off to my left, away from the bodies of my guitars, and ideally (with the Bose L1), at least 6-8' behind me and 6-8' to the side. I have found that the Bose has such excellent dispersion that I've had to re-train myself to USE that 180 degrees of coverage by aiming the Bose so that it "covers" the target area (audience) while providing me all the noise I want to hear...

So, yes, I could hear myself perfectly in that big room. One important key with the AER when you are using it at a higher volume level is to have the thing fairly removed from my immediate location... since the sound spreads so well once you are 10' or so away from the Compact, if I have it that far or a bit farther, I can easily angle the Compact so that I can hear clearly without feedback issues and the audience gets the brunt of the sound...

As with most live performances, there will always be compromises in the set-up of the gear... so the AER may need a bit of tweaking to sound good in every room in which you use it... once I have found the general "sweet spot" for the AER, I want to have it to the point where I can "set it and forget it"; however, both my 6 and 12 string guitars need a bit different eq to sound like I want, so I have to walk over to the thing and switch settings when I switch guitars; thus far, that has not proven to be a big issue.

Hey! How much was that wedge gizmo? And where did you order it? I may want to get one for myself... certainly, the wedge would be wonderful for playing at home or in a small get together with other players...

Keep us updated on your experiences!

John
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2014, 02:53 AM
pipedwho pipedwho is offline
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I had the exact same experience with the AER Compact 60. The first time I fired it up and conversation volume with it right in front of me I thought I'd just wasted a grand on a boxy sounding amp. Meanwhile a guy 20 foot away is giving me the double thumbs up. Confused I asked why he was doing that and just kept saying 'awesome tone'.

Then I recorded a quick loop with the loop pedal, cranked the amp a bit and went into the audience. Holy crap, there was the tone! Tone with a capital T.

When I walked back the amp still sounded **** sweet. It does like to push a bit of volume, but more importantly, it does its best work when you're not right on top of it.

It does have a fairly narrow throw, so it isn't a super wide dispersion amp like the Bose line arrays. But, in most venues, once you get about 10 feet away from, it still sounds really good even at a pretty wide angle to the sides. Close up, you need to be right in the middle of the beam to get that sound.
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  #19  
Old 12-06-2014, 05:38 AM
51 Relic 51 Relic is offline
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Good Morning

I have been gigging with my AER Compact 60 for the last 8 years and this is how I set it up

I found a hi if speaker stand that the amp can sit on and it tilts the amp to be in line with my ears . I normally set the main volume to about 4 and the gain control on the main channel to about 10 o clock . With my backing tracks if I use them I go direct into the return input on the back of the amp . Due to playing mostly fingerstyle with my GS Mini e I push in the colour button this shifts the mid range and gives more clarity .
Because I play mostly In churches now I sometimes leave the amp like this , but our church in the summer months runs outdoor music afternoons , then I run a feed into the PA wonderful sound amazing portablility and so loud .
For my electric playing I use a ZT lunchbox but you can get amazing results by feeding a processor into the return of the AER , sometimes I use the ZT and the AER in stereo from the zoom GU7 .1 processor ideal for country guitar and you can with an AB box have both guitars set up .
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  #20  
Old 12-06-2014, 06:54 AM
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open-road-matt open-road-matt is offline
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Thanks for all the help everyone!
I really appreciate hearing about all the different experiences. The more I play through this amp, the more I like it!

I have my first show with it this coming Thursday in a brand new venue so I'm excited to see/hear what happens. I'll bring the AER and my Bose L1 Model 2. I don't know how big the room is nor do I know the audience size (a coach bus full.) My hope is to set up the AER and see if that covers the room first. If not, I'll take the DI out to the Bose to fill in the space.

Meanwhile, I keep trying different things at home. My best set up now is on that Da-Lite table I mentioned a couple of posts ago with a book, about 2" thick propping up the front. The downside of the table is that it really needs to be right next to me if I'm going to have my harps on it.

I should have that wedge early in the week so I'll throw that into the equation and see what other set ups I can figure out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jseth View Post
Hey! How much was that wedge gizmo? And where did you order it? I may want to get one for myself... certainly, the wedge would be wonderful for playing at home or in a small get together with other players...
I got the wedge at Django Books:

http://www.djangobooks.com/Item/aer-tilt-system

I think they charged me $9 for shipping so $34 total.

Are any of you using a footswitch to turn effects on and off? I haven't used any effects on guitar or vocals for years with the Bose stuff but I'm finding that I like just a hint of reverb on both through the AER. I talk a lot between songs and need to turn off the effects for talking. I ordered one but the one I ordered doesn't have a light on it so I may need to find one with a light so I can see if effects are on/off.

Thanks again for all the help!
Matt
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  #21  
Old 12-09-2014, 06:17 AM
dcopper dcopper is offline
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Matt,
Let us know how the wedge works out. What I like is that it says that it fits into the AER bag. One less thing to carry. Just to carry this out a bit - are most people playing with it on the floor? I still have that old school mentality of getting it up in the air. I think it loses its bottom end a bit, which can be easily compensated for with a bass boost.
Right now I have one of the folding small amp stands that puts it about 2 feet off the floor and angles it up towards your ears. I also have this folding double guitar stand that has a large front end for an acoustic and the amp can sit well on that.
the last time I played out, I just put it on a table behind me and it sounded very sweet. I sat in front and to the side of it. Having the solid table top (outdoor table in a patio bar/grille) helped maintain some bottom end.

Keep us posted Matt,
davidc
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  #22  
Old 12-09-2014, 09:25 AM
janmulder janmulder is offline
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I always carry a small 'tilt-stand' I made out of an XY stereo mic adapter. Just bent it a little and when needed it screws on the bottom of my AER. (See pics)

The XY stereo mic adapter bent into shape ...



Attached to the bottom of the amp ...



And this is what it does ...



Simple cheap and effective.

But really I prefer the amp high up on a proper stand.
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  #23  
Old 12-09-2014, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakedi View Post

But really I prefer the amp high up on a proper stand.
Hi Jan,
That bent bracket is really cool. Great idea!

When you say a "proper stand," have you found one that you like?

My little AER wedge should be here tomorrow and I'll test it out then. Both on the floor and on my little table.

I still think I might like a portable amp stand that raises it up a bit and gives it some tilt in case I can't have it on the table right next to me.

Last night I set both the AER and the Bose L1 Compact up in the living room and had my wife sit and listen to both going back and forth several times. The AER really filled the room nicely and we both preferred the overall tone and clarity of the AER.

I started with the AER on the floor with the front end propped up about 4". Then I moved it to a chair again with the front raised about 4". It sounded much better up on the chair.

I sure wish I could try the same comparison outside. I think the Bose would win in the overall coverage and sound dispersion categories, but I'd love to try it out and see. I've been really impressed so far with the AER!

Matt

Last edited by open-road-matt; 12-09-2014 at 10:21 AM.
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  #24  
Old 12-09-2014, 10:26 AM
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This is one area, but not the only area, where the Schertler products do a nice job by having a speaker pole mount built in to the amp.

I liked my Loudbox Mini okay but in performance, since I normally stand when I play, I quickly found that it was too low to the ground and the built in slope was not sufficient to get sound directed toward my ear unless I was like 20 feet away. I tried the chair and table routine but stability was an issue. The speaker pole solves all the problems. Gets the height I need for both monitoring and for throwing sound into the room. And if ultra compact is needed, Schertler makes this cool, albeit expensive, tilt back attachment that really tilts the amp back for monitoring.

My concern with the AER solution is it doesn't look like enough tilt to get the sound where it is needed. But it depends on how used I guess. I'm about convinced they all should come with a speaker pole mount. Once you get used to using it, other solutions don't seem as good.

hunter
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  #25  
Old 12-09-2014, 01:50 PM
janmulder janmulder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by open-road-matt View Post
Hi Jan,
That bent bracket is really cool. Great idea!

When you say a "proper stand," have you found one that you like?
Hi Matt,

Thanks. I use 3 different solutions depending on my needs. The tilt stand I built is always in the case so when going to a jam I can pull it out. It also works if you are on a bigger stage that is a bit higher up. You basically need space around the amp for the sound to radiate out (and up).

If not on a stage then I prefer a mic stand. I have an older one from AKG which has wide spreading legs (about 1m) and is a bit heavier than most and very sturdy. It's difficult to find good sturdy mic stands with wide feet but it's possible ... I've found the older ones to be better. I use this to place the amp from just below waist to just above waist height. The amp is so light it's not a problem and very safe. The only problem with a mic stand is you can't tilt the amp ... mic stands are just not made for this kind of off centre weight. But the whole solution is a very portable one. I just use the vertical part of the stand and screw the amp into this ... do NOT use the boom which is too unstable.

If you are playing in a bar where everyone is standing then you really want the amp to be higher (a thick sea of standing folk quickly absorbs all your carefully crafted sound!) ... I like about head height. This has to be with a speaker stand for the extra stability. I have an adapter to fit the amp onto any speaker stand ... and on a speaker stand you can also tilt the amp a little which enables you to have it a little lower.

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  #26  
Old 12-09-2014, 03:08 PM
dcopper dcopper is offline
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Jan
Great solutions
Where did you get the speaker stand adapter?
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  #27  
Old 12-09-2014, 03:36 PM
janmulder janmulder is offline
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It is made by K&M and the model number is

K&M 24521-300-55

I got it in Germany. I'm sure they distribute in the US.
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  #28  
Old 12-09-2014, 07:56 PM
dcopper dcopper is offline
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I sent them an email so hopefully they can tell me where to purchase in the U.S. I will pass that info on here.

Thanks - I may rig one of those x/y speaker adapters as well. Cool to have them in the case.

Right nowI like it on my small amp stand. I was not happy with my rigged speaker stand so the adapter from K&M would be excellent.

davidc
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  #29  
Old 12-09-2014, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcopper View Post
I sent them an email so hopefully they can tell me where to purchase in the U.S. I will pass that info on here.
Here is a spot in Salt Lake City, UT:

http://www.performanceaudio.com/item...FS6ZMgodTkkA4A

I love the idea of three different options. I'll have the little wedge thing for on the floor, the Da-Lite table puts it at waist height, and I can use that with or without the wedge and then the K&M adapter and a speaker stand should be nice for head height!

zhunter mentioned the Schertler amps and I agree that a pole mount is a nice feature. I had a Unico and I really liked the amp but I prefer the AER because of its size. It's about half the size of the Unico and with some of these different set up configurations I think I will find it more versatile. We'll see.

Thanks for all the info!

Matt
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  #30  
Old 12-12-2014, 08:57 AM
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An update: I did my first show yesterday with the AER Compact 60/3....sort of!

I got an email the day before from the organizer of the event saying there would be 55 people there. I thought that would be a perfect size audience to try out using just the AER so I was pretty committed to doing just that. But as a back up, I brought the Bose L1 Model 2.

I got to the venue to discover one of the oddest performance set ups I've encountered in my almost 20 years of doing this!

They have two rooms divided by some french doors. One of the rooms is a square, the other a rectangle. The plan was to seat about half of the group in each one of these rooms, open the french doors (which don't quite open all the way) and put me right next to the french doors. So if I was playing just to the one rectangle room, I'd be in the corner but now I have to face straight out and try and cover both of these rooms!

I set up the AER on a tall barstool with the wedge facing straight out and did a quick sound check. The amp sounded nice in the space but my closest table was going to be about 3' from the amp. There was no way I could push enough volume to cover the square room without it being WAY too loud for those sitting close.

So I quickly set up the Bose L1 Model 2 right next to me, took the DI out of the AER and let the Bose fill the space. I put the AER on the floor with the little wedge thing like a monitor so I could hear myself and it worked just great!

On the plus side, I really like the tone I'm getting through the Bose when I come out of the AER. I made NO changes to the EQ on the amp and the Bose reproduced the sound wonderfully! It filled the space and was not too loud for the table 3' from the system!

It was really nice to have the AER as a monitor too. I was right next to the Bose and I don't think I would have been able to hear myself as well as I like to with out the amp pointing back at me. That little wedge is nice but it doesn't quite kick the amp back far enough to have it as close to me as I'd like so I might need to find something else for when I use the AER as a floor wedge.

Not the best trial run with the AER but I would argue that there is NO system that could have covered that space other than a large Bose L1. Powered speakers would have been too loud for the tables right next to me and caused sight line problems. So the big Bose was about the only tool for that job!

I have decided to sell my Bose L1 Compact and keep the AER. I ordered that speaker stand adapter and a speaker stand. I think the combo of the AER and the Bose L1 Model 2 gives me a ton of versatility and the AER is so easy to set up and sounds so good, I don't mind doing what I did yesterday: start with the AER, see if it will work for the venue then go out to the big Bose as needed.

Matt
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