Now I Understand

[mattwood]

It sounds like you played a guitar with a really good setup. That can make a huge difference in play ability and sound, and that is not out of your reach at all.

[Steadfastly]

Originally Posted by JBCROTTY

I have always scratched my head at the idea of paying thousands of dollars for a guitar. How much better can they be? Are they THAT much better than a mid-priced Yamaha? (Tongue and cheek joke.)

Then at my guitar lesson this week, my instructor let me play his Taylor custom worth $6,000. First, it was simply gorgeous. But most importantly, it played like butter and sounded incredible. It was the smoothest, easiest guitar I have ever had my hands on. I was stunned.

I will probably never choose to spend that kind of money on a guitar. But I have changed my mind and perception of why people have them. Now I understand.

So if you had another manufacturer produce that guitar for a much lower price, would you still have to spend $6000.00 to get a "dream" guitar? There is a lot more to Taylor guitars than the price of labour and materials. That is true of all major manufacturers.

[rogthefrog]

Originally Posted by Earl49

I was going to post this thought too, by Kydave beat me to it. You can get nicer woods and bling for more money, or maybe move from factory into hand built luthier guitars, but the differences become VERY subtle.

I have to disagree.

Maybe they are subtle to someone whose playing style (or chosen genre) doesn't highlight those differences, or whose ear or hands aren't attuned to those differences, but the differences are real and not subtle at all.

There's a reason why a Walker, Somogyi, Sexauer, Kostal, Traugott, Claxton, Klein, Wingert or Greenfield guitar carries such a premium over other guitars. I've tried all of those and the difference is clear as day.

I was at a party once filled with exceptional guitars. I played dozens that day. Dozens. The best ones? Wingert, Sexauer, Klein and Walker. By far. Not even close. And there were many, many others by luthiers whose names you'd recognize and whose prices can be intimidating. I didn't know anything about Walker. The host handed my his guitar and said "try this, you might like it." I played a couple of tunes and my eyes got really big. The host was grinning from ear to ear.

That's not to say every luthier-built guitar that costs $6K and up is better than that $6K Taylor. I completely believe that Taylor sounds like a million bucks. I have one like that. But denying or dismissing the differences between factory guitars and top-shelf luthier guitars is uninformed.

[rmyAddison]

NOBODY can put a price on "opinions" or personal preferences, one man's dream guitar is another's "not so much", neither is right or wrong for themselves.

I have/had a few $10K plus Martins, that will buy a lot of luthier boutique price range instruments. If I had preferred them that's what I would own, but my ears have loved Martins forever, that's what works for me.

Am I saying high end Martins are better than some boutique builders, absolutely not, only they are "to me", and in somebody else's world if Ryans or Olsons hit the spot, good for them, no skin off me.

Do higher prices "in general" provide better instruments, I believe so, but only a fool follows a strangers opinions over their own ears, whether it's a $500, $5000 or $20000 guitar. As F. Zappa said....."shut up and play"

[Lovcom]

I dare call GAS..gasp... covetousness...in my photography forums I see it there too...the need for the Nth pro camera body, the type that costs $6,000.00 plus.

Covetousness, the thinking that just one more material gem will somehow make one feel better, complete, alive.

Still, these "gems" can each be different, have different qualities, and one might be able to truthfully justify having X number of them.

People also do this with clothes, shoes, purses, lenses, vehicles...its that demon Retail Therapy! LOL

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by rogthefrog

I have to disagree.......There's a reason why a Walker, Somogyi, Sexauer, Kostal, Traugott, Claxton, Klein, Wingert or Greenfield guitar carries such a premium over other guitars. I've tried all of those and the difference is clear as day.....

No problem - we can disagree agreeably, Rog. In the general sense of the OP's question, which included a $6K price point and a specific mention of Taylor, I took it to mean he was asking about factory guitars such as one might encounter beyond places like the now defunct Healdsburg Guitar Show.

I fully realize that there are plenty of Yairi's and other premium luthier-built guitars that use high quality wood in a laminate. I've played a Wingert and a Greg Smallman that were both truly wonderful. At that exalted level of build quality and five-figure prices, I simply don't worry much about what wood choices those luthiers make - they have forgotten more about wood and tone and building than I will ever know. Are all wonderful instruments far beyond my abilities. I seriously consider an $8K Australian builder at the 2011 Healdsburg show. It definitely had some special qualities.

[Steadfastly]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

NOBODY can put a price on "opinions" or personal preferences, one man's dream guitar is another's "not so much", neither is right or wrong for themselves.


Do higher prices "in general" provide better instruments, I believe so, but only a fool follows a strangers opinions over their own ears, whether it's a $500, $5000 or $20000 guitar.

So reasonable.

[mercy]

Every custom guitar I have played or owned was different than every factory made guitar Ive played or owned. I have not played all nor all price points of factory guitars but they all look and sound like a slurry of raw materials were poured into a form and when dried they pop it out of the form and there it is. A luthier made guitar looks and feels real. I dont mean sloppy just different than a factory made guitar.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by Pitar

I plug in an el cheapo nylon string guitar and dial in the tone I want. I've never experienced the perfect acoustic guitar so this is as imperfectly perfect as it's gonna get. And, the 1-7/8th's nut better suits me.

Plugging in is the great equalizer. Play a $500 and $5000 acoustic guitar side by side and you can sure tell the difference. Mount the same pu in each, play thru the same signal chain and now it's not as easy to differentiate.

When I play for money or to entertain, I plug in. When I play for me and my friends, its unplugged. And that's where it makes a difference.

[Neil K Walk]

As a player it's actually quite easy to understand. The feel of a full gloss finish over a satin one. The comfort of a neck profile that you get to choose - or even have customs carved for you - as opposed to whatever is hanging on the wall in the budget section. The smell of a fresh finish over that of a dusty used or NOS instrument that's been beaten or neglected. The responsiveness of a well set up guitar with low action and fresh strings. The light feel of a guitar designed to be responsive like a race car vs. the clunkiness of a utilititarian instrument. The smell of raw wood vs the smell of dust. The comparisons are endless.

The trouble is how do you get your loved ones to understand if they don't know these things? Can you liken the difference to a car buff by comaprisng a Ford Sexan to a Ferrari super car? Can you explain to a wine connoisseur by expressing the comparison as they would a jug or box wine to their favorite vintage?

If you can, then that's quite a gift. Otherwise you have to suffer with a taste for prime rib on a peanut butter and jelly budget.

[Greg Ballantyne]

I know what the OP means, but I've already started to climb the ladder. I don't know how high I'll go, but I'll find out....... with Taylors you get very good playability in nearly all models. But there is still a big difference between my514ce-LTD and a 114. Nit just the sound, but also in playability.

[leew3]

You already have some very nice guitars and that you're taking lessons says that you take your craft seriously. I predict that as your skills continue to improve you will act on your new understanding of the value of high end guitars in terms of the pleasure of playing them.

In my experience this is often not a rational or logical process. Each of my guitars have spoken to me in a very visceral manner that I still can't fully explain. And each time I start to think 'I don't really need all these guitars' the playing of one I'm considering selling is such a pleasure that I change my mind. I'm at a place in my collection that there is really no duplication as each one has a distinct voice and purpose. I'm blessed in that I have sufficient income and a very supportive wife so that my purchases don't cause problems at home and we're not selling plasma to pay the rent.

May you be in a similar situation and at least enjoy the great fun of trying out beautiful guitars-even if you never purchase a higher priced instrument than what you already have.

As to GAS...I can quit any time I want

[fazool]

I "get" you're getting it.

I was in the same boat ~6 years ago.

I had learned on Epiphones, bought an affordable Aria and had a Yamaha all-laminated tank.

I had shopped and shopped and researched and researched and shopped some more.

Then, I went into the high end room at GC and tried out my first Taylor.....it was a total awakening moment.

From that moment I knew that was what I wanted and would have. Those have been my main favored brand ever since.


I had a similar awakening experience when I played a Bourgeois OMJC and then again when I played a Lowden.....same experience.....ratcheting it up a level.

[ChrisE]

Originally Posted by fazool

I "get" you're getting it.

I was in the same boat ~6 years ago.

I had learned on Epiphones, bought an affordable Aria and had a Yamaha all-laminated tank.

I had shopped and shopped and researched and researched and shopped some more.

Then, I went into the high end room at GC and tried out my first Taylor.....it was a total awakening moment.

From that moment I knew that was what I wanted and would have. Those have been my main favored brand ever since.


I had a similar awakening experience when I played a Bourgeois OMJC and then again when I played a Lowden.....same experience.....ratcheting it up a level.

Kind of the same here. Five years ago I would have said "My $300 Alvarez sounds just as good as any of those others." Now that I've been playing pretty steadily for the past five years I can tell the difference between the budget imports and the nice standard models from Taylor and Martin.

But I still can't really tell the difference between those nice standard Taylors and Martins the super high-end custom guitars. Not yet, anyway.

[kydave]

"My $300 Alvarez sounds just as good as any of those others."

Yep, we've all seen those kind of statements on forums before.

Those who know better just shake their heads and think, "How lucky for his pocketbook, but how sad for his uneducated ears... One of these days..."

Sounds like you're progressing to "one of these days." (Although, watch out pocketbook!)