First project with Reaper demo

[TBman]

A short demo with Reaper.

Recording set-up:
Two AT-2035 mics at about 10" from the guitar, left at about the 9th fret and the right at about the bridge, into a Zoom H5. Untreated spare bedroom, not the quietest house.

Reaper Demo:


Mastering:

I used the Rx 7 Standard Spectral DeNoise tool and then some spot clean ups with Spectral Repair.

Then in Reaper:

Ozone 8 - High pass, Dynamic compressor at -12db, limiter at 0.00, Maximizer threshold at -4.0 db ceiling at -0.2 db IRC III balanced.

Ozone Imager width at 42.5 and stereorize at 9.3

No reverb.

I rendered the wav file at 44,100Hz 16 bit.

I like the performance of Reaper more than Audition. Audition was a bit too heavy for my computer.
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[Doug Young]

Good job Barry, your recordings have made a lot of progress. Good stereo image. I do hear something kind of grainy, with some occasional resonances for lack of a better word. I suspect you're going too heavy with RX - it's amazing, but can still damage the sound if overdone. You know, if you're not releasing a commercial CD, I think you could just skip noise reduction, no one's going to even notice a little noise if the sound is good otherwise. Personally, I'd skip the compressor as well. Maybe just apply a little reverb and see how that sounds?

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Good job Barry, your recordings have made a lot of progress. Good stereo image. I do hear something kind of grainy, with some occasional resonances for lack of a better word. I suspect you're going too heavy with RX - it's amazing, but can still damage the sound if overdone. You know, if you're not releasing a commercial CD, I think you could just skip noise reduction, no one's going to even notice a little noise if the sound is good otherwise. Personally, I'd skip the compressor as well. Maybe just apply a little reverb and see how that sounds?

Thanks Doug. I used the "C" strength setting on the noise removal. I'll try the "B" setting and see how it sounds.

[alohachris]

Aloha Barry,

Back to the drawing board.

Experiment - Lose all the signal processing add-on's, turn up your levels a tad, & play the same piece. Then repost.

Like Doug, I can feel & hear the compressor & RX7 noise reduction (not) working for you, sounding like cheap live phase shifter FX. Noise reduction always killed the soul of analog tape acoustic guitar recordings if used more than 'barely there.' Compression is the other offender that we can always hear when it's abused.

It IS fun to try new digital controls for solving problems & compensating for an untreated space, Barry. But you know the key option, my friend, no matter how noisy or terrible your space is. What? After all these years of posts? Is recording without Room Treatment somehow a badge of honor for you somehow?

Build or buy four broadband absorbers - two for behind you & two in front of your mic's in tracking space. Then eliminate all the above processing - just your two mic's in. When it comes to signal processing, it's addition by subtraction - go lighter than light on them or not at all, especially as you're just learning how to use them. Same with reverb (I know you like that reverb sound - at the expense of intimacy, IMO.)

It almost seems as if you have too much information & options at this point. Simple, clear acoustic recordings are not that difficult to achieve, IMO. Don't add to your problems with too much signal processing, Barry. Mic placement & mastering the right levels are the recording keys. A great guitar & convincing, confident performance in a treated space are where the quality begins.

Good Luck.

alohachris

[terryj47]

Very nice Barry!

[rick-slo]

Pretty good clarity and I did not notice noise. On the other hand somewhat lifeless and boxy. IMO lose the compression, Ozone Imager, and probably the IRC III. Of course some room treatment would be valuable.

[keith.rogers]

It sounds a little bright/brittle, which could be the mics, their position, guitar, etc. Hard to say not having heard you in the room live!

Maybe shift those mics a bit to your right (as you face them) so the neck mic is angled just at the spot in from the neck joint, and the bridge mic is aiming slightly below the bridge. And maybe move both out a couple inches.

Did you get the Tonal Balance Control plugin so you can look at the curve you are getting overall?

I would consider a small high shelf move (down) on the mic that is closer to the fingerboard.

What's the high-pass setting?

I prefer a compressor that has a tiny bit of color on the mix-bus in front of Ozone or any mastering. In Logic Pro X I use a built-in that is an emulation of a Focusrite Red, with something in that 1.5-2.0 ratio, and threshold just enough to need maybe 0.5-1.5dB make up gain.

And, really, get the mix as good as possible and don't put Ozone on until after that's done. Even force yourself to not use Ozone on your recorded tracks, but (as intended) on a stereo, 24-bit bounce (in-place or exported and imported to a new project).

You don't need both the limiter and the Maximizer in Ozone.

I would use Ozone 8's dither if you are bouncing down to 16-bit.

Very nice playing.

[KevWind]

On thing that might make such posts even more interesting is some screen shots of your mix window and pertinent plugin GUI's

[TBman]

Thanks everyone!

Here's the the same clip without noise removal, just spot cleanup. In Reaper I just used Ozone Imager and reverb. I guess with decent input levels the rest shouldn't be used unless its needed. I left out the high pass also as the guitar I used isn't really bass heavy. This one is 24 bit.

Demo 2:


And here's the original one from my OP:

Demo 1:

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

Did you get the Tonal Balance Control plugin so you can look at the curve you are getting overall?

Keith, whose plug in are you referring to?
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[rick-slo]

Sounds more realistic without the noise remover. Have to hear without Ozone Imager used to have opinion on that.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by TBman

...
Keith, whose plug in are you referring to?

Tonal Balance Control is from iZotope. I use their Neutron 2 plugin on individual tracks but usually just for EQ because I like the masking view when you have several tracks. Sometimes I use the exciter in Neutron but I tend to use Logic Pro X’s compressors to provide color and it’s Space Designer (IR based) reverb.

I’ve only used that Imager part of Ozone if I’m playing around with an old mono recording. Even with 2 mics on a small source like a solo performer I don’t try to get a wide spread and generally let the (stereo IR) reverb open things up. But I’m not creating CDs, either, just trying for something more like being in the room.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

Tonal Balance Control is from iZotope. I use their Neutron 2 plugin on individual tracks but usually just for EQ because I like the masking view when you have several tracks. Sometimes I use the exciter in Neutron but I tend to use Logic Pro X’s compressors to provide color and it’s Space Designer (IR based) reverb.

I’ve only used that Imager part of Ozone if I’m playing around with an old mono recording. Even with 2 mics on a small source like a solo performer I don’t try to get a wide spread and generally let the (stereo IR) reverb open things up. But I’m not creating CDs, either, just trying for something more like being in the room.

Ok thanks Keith.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Barry,

Back to the drawing board.

Experiment - Lose all the signal processing add-on's, turn up your levels a tad, & play the same piece. Then repost.

Like Doug, I can feel & hear the compressor & RX7 noise reduction (not) working for you, sounding like cheap live phase shifter FX. Noise reduction always killed the soul of analog tape acoustic guitar recordings if used more than 'barely there.' Compression is the other offender that we can always hear when it's abused.

It IS fun to try new digital controls for solving problems & compensating for an untreated space, Barry. But you know the key option, my friend, no matter how noisy or terrible your space is. What? After all these years of posts? Is recording without Room Treatment somehow a badge of honor for you somehow?

Build or buy four broadband absorbers - two for behind you & two in front of your mic's in tracking space. Then eliminate all the above processing - just your two mic's in. When it comes to signal processing, it's addition by subtraction - go lighter than light on them or not at all, especially as you're just learning how to use them. Same with reverb (I know you like that reverb sound - at the expense of intimacy, IMO.)

It almost seems as if you have too much information & options at this point. Simple, clear acoustic recordings are not that difficult to achieve, IMO. Don't add to your problems with too much signal processing, Barry. Mic placement & mastering the right levels are the recording keys. A great guitar & convincing, confident performance in a treated space are where the quality begins.

Good Luck.

alohachris

I think this is great advice all round.