What glue is everyone using????

[viento]

Thanks for all of your constructive and highly interesting answers!

What irritated me somewhat was a note I read that cured hideglue was keeping a certain amount of flexibility ...whatever that meant. I had never heard that before. I thought it would be very hard after curing.

[murrmac123]

Nobody seems to have mentioned Titebond Liquid Hide glue yet ...as long as it is fresh, it has all the strength and virtues of HHG without the hassle...also a longer open time.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

Nobody seems to have mentioned Titebond Liquid Hide glue yet ...as long as it is fresh, it has all the strength and virtues of HHG without the hassle...also a longer open time.

I've had 100% failure on all instrument parts that I've used it on. I've tried multiple bottles and ensured that each was within its expiration date. Others have reported similar results. Others have reported good success with it. Based upon my experiences with it, I avoid it like the plague. It fails at normal summer ambient high humidity and temperatures in my area.

I've had good success with traditional hot hide glue, fish glue and with Old Brown Glue, a Urea-doped liquid hide glue, also with a longer open time.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

I've had 100% failure on all instrument parts that I've used it on. I've tried multiple bottles and ensured that each was within its expiration date. Others have reported similar results. Others have reported good success with it. Based upon my experiences with it, I avoid it like the plague. It fails at normal summer ambient high humidity and temperatures in my area.

I've had good success with traditional hot hide glue, fish glue and with Old Brown Glue, a Urea-doped liquid hide glue, also with a longer open time.

Give a dog a bad name ....

An opposing view from Bill Cumpiano

[WaddyT]

The addition of urea in hide glue causes it to dry differently than when it is pure. When dry it is no longer hard and brittle, and it becomes rubbery. Pure hide is like glass and will break clean. Both Old Brown Glue an Titebond Hide Glue have urea that has an effect. OBG only has urea, thus a fairly short shelf life before it spoils. Titebond Hide Glue is also loaded with other preservatives in addition to the urea. I won't use either on a guitar, and certainly wouldn't even consider for any of the critical joints. Maybe for binding or something like that. However, why do that when fish glue is available with all of the properties of hide glue but a liquid.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

Give a dog a bad name ....

An opposing view from Bill Cumpiano

I thank you for the information on how to test the glue for freshness. Should I ever want to try the product again, I'll use that test prior to doing so.

From the article/letter:

We have always assumed that any rumors of poor performance with our Liquid Hide Glue was primarily an issue of using glue that was too old and did not form as brittle of a film because the proteins had begun to break down.

Their assumption that poor performance is due to old glue leaves me displeased. First, because they have made an assumption about the product, rather than actively investigate it to determine the facts. They might find that in-the-field use it behaves differently than in their laboratory - an potentially missed opportunity to improve the product. Second, if they believe - based upon their assumptions - that users are having bad experiences due to old glue, why would they not put right on the label how to test it prior to use? That would save users ruining expensive, labor-intensive work due to failure of their glue. That suggests they don't care. Neither leaves me with a "warm and fuzzy".

To be fair, I did not contact them regarding the glue failures I experienced. Perhaps they might have investigated it. Regardless, I experienced glue failure with numerous batches of the product - I'd hope that at least one of those would have been still good. If not, it suggests a problem in their distribution system, that consumers repeatedly get old glue.

That's my experience. As I stated, others have had good results with it. Others have not.

There does not appear to be a follow-up and Mr. Cumpiano did not report his experience in using the product. Closing the loop on that would involve e-mailing him to ask if he ever used the product and, if so, what results he had.

[arie]

for me it's:

-titebond original
-loctite CA

i'm considering Hysol ES1902 for fretboards.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by viento

There are different types of Titebond in the market.

Which one of these three listed below is best for guitars?
1) Titebond® Original
2) Titebond® II Premium
3) Titebond® III Ultimate

Or should I better use hideglue?

Many prefer Titebond Original. I used titebond II because that is what I was taught with. Titebond III is useful for gluing binding/purflings BEFORE bending and gluing to the guitar. For gluing bindings to the guitar, however, use one of the other titebonds (some prefer CA). Titebond III is great for making binding/purfling combos because it will not release with heat & water. The same reason that Titebond III is good for gluing binding/purfling combos before bending is the reason Titebond III should be avoided for most joints - it is harder to scrape and will NOT wash or lift from raw wood with water. It also has a longer open time and slightly longer dry time.

[redir]

The first classical guitar I built about 20 years ago was with Liquid Hide glue. It's been treated fairly bad actually and it is still holding. But I would never do it again and only did it back then out of sheer ignorance. I've read way to many reports of joints coming apart with the stuff. IF you want to use hide then hot hide is the only way to go without risking problems down the road. I got lucky and actually I have not pulled that guitar out of it's case in at least a year so maybe it's in pieces now

[John Arnold]

However, in practice, for more than 30 years, I've repaired all manner of braces that were glued with all types of glues. Usually, I use Titebond I. I've never had one come back due to the Titebond-to-old glue joint separating.

Same here. Though I occasionally use HHG to reglue braces, it can be very difficult through the soundhole. The added working time of Titebond can be a lifesaver.

I built my first 60 guitars with Titebond Original. One of those was for Doc Watson, and three were for Norman and Nancy Blake.

[viento]

Thanks to all of you!

I overhauled my old Hoyer 12-string a couple of years ago and besides other work glued an ebony bridge and fingerboard I´d made myself with HHG out of a baby´s bottle warmer.
I had to hurry before the HHG settled.

I guess it will be not easy to use HHG with the guitar I intend to make - especially when gluing bigger parts like kerfed lining or top and bottom.
A fingerboard seems much easier to me.
Could the setting of HHG be extended somewhat without drawbacks?

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by viento

Could the setting of HHG be extended somewhat without drawbacks?

Heating the parts to be glued will extend the open time somewhat.

Adding urea will extend the open time: see discussion below for potential drawbacks in using urea.

Fish glue has a longer open time than HHG, but otherwise has many of the same advantages.

Another thing to consider is that many makers use different glues for different parts of the instrument. Perhaps, save the HHG for certain part of the instrument and use other glues for other parts, such as linings.

[John Arnold]

When I switched to HHG, the only issue with working time was gluing the top and back onto the rim. Instead of doing the initial clamp with 1/4" threaded rods and wing nuts (which works fine with Titebond), I use 8 quick clamps (Quick Grip or similar), then install the threaded rods after the joint is closed.
I glue kerfed lining by applying the HHG 3 to 4 inches at a time, using clothes pins.
Warm the parts and make sure the glue is not too thick to give more working time.
When gluing hard woods to soft woods (i.e. bridge and rosewood backs), it is helpful to 'pre-size' the soft wood by applying a thin coat of HHG and letting it dry for a few minutes before proceeding.
I also use a toothing iron on the rosewood and ebony gluing surfaces.

[WaddyT]

You can also glue up in the time it takes, then heat the perimeter with a hair dryer on hot, and clamp as you heat each section up. The glue softens with the heat, and good contact is clamped into the softened glue.

[murrmac123]

Virtuoso demonstration of how to glue up with HHG by one of the undisputed masters of the technique ...