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Old 06-06-2011, 11:24 AM
dablues dablues is offline
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Default Amount of time needed for nitro finish to "cure"

My friend just bought a brand new Martin D-35. I told him that the nitro finish on new Martins can be "soft" and I suggested that he may want to leave the guitar out of the case a few days before he plays it much. My question is how long does it take for the nitro finish to harden sufficiently so that it won't get scratched as easily?
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:30 AM
HudsDad HudsDad is offline
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It can take months for nitro fully cure/harden, but a guitar with a nitro finish can be safely handled and played after a few weeks in most cases (depending on the temp/humidity. Martin has been doing this for quite a while and I doubt they would ship the guitar if it wasn't safe to handle. Pretty sure they have an environmentally controlled warehouse to keep the guitars while they cure.
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:31 PM
dablues dablues is offline
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Originally Posted by HudsDad View Post
It can take months for nitro fully cure/harden, but a guitar with a nitro finish can be safely handled and played after a few weeks in most cases (depending on the temp/humidity. Martin has been doing this for quite a while and I doubt they would ship the guitar if it wasn't safe to handle. Pretty sure they have an environmentally controlled warehouse to keep the guitars while they cure.
Thanks for the info. Is there anything that can be done to facilitate the "curing" process other than just leaving the guitar out of the case?
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:54 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by dablues View Post
Thanks for the info. Is there anything that can be done to facilitate the "curing" process other than just leaving the guitar out of the case?
Sure - stick it in the oven for eight hours with the temperature set at 350ºF, and there'll be no more worries about the lacquer curing or anything else!

Naturally, you'll need to leave the oven door open a crack so the guitar neck can protrude....

Seriously, dablues, except on those very rare occasions when Martin has received a bad batch of lacquer from their supplier, by the time a new Martin has reached the buyer the finish on the guitar will safe to handle. For several months after the guitar ships the finish will "gas off" as some of the volatile plasticizer chemical compounds in the lacquer migrate out, which is why you get that stinky lacquer "new guitar smell." But it doesn't affect the ability of the guitar to be handled and used.

I don't think leaving the guitar out on a stand will affect the timing of this off-gassing process. What's seems more likely to me is that when the guitar is left in its case the smell gets more concentrated and thus more noticeable when the case is opened and the guitar is taken out to be played. Left on a stand the pff-gassing occurs at the same rate, but it dissipates faster because it's not all closed in the case.

Anyway, under normal conditions with the proper lacquer formulation, it averages about six months from being sprayed for a nitro-cellulose lacquer finish to fully harden. But Martin won't ship the guitars until they're completely safe to handle and play, even though there's a few months left yet for the finish to completely harden.

But in practical terms, it affects nothing other than your nostrils.

Short version: so long as your friend doesn't festoon himself with strands of barbed wire when he plays, the guitar shouldn't be any more prone to scratches than it will be years from now.

Hope that makes sense.


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Old 06-06-2011, 01:16 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Leaving it out of its case isn't going to make any difference to how the lacquer cures.
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:20 PM
bluemoon bluemoon is offline
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+1 on Martin curing the finish before they ship out guitars. They tell you all about it on the factory tour.
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:24 PM
dablues dablues is offline
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Leaving it out of its case isn't going to make any difference to how the lacquer cures.
So does my friend need to be concerned about his guitar being more prone to getting scratches while its still very new?
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:34 PM
sharkydude50 sharkydude50 is offline
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Default Time for nitro cel. laquer to cure

Over @ the refinishing forum I belong to the rule of thumb is to let a newly sprayed/finished guitar hang (we usually have them hanging up in a closet to "dry") for 4 weeks before you move on to the polishing phase (which is wet-sanding [usually starting @ 800 grit and moving up to 2000], followed by scratch removal (compounding) & final polishing)
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:37 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dablues View Post
So does my friend need to be concerned about his guitar being more prone to getting scratches while its still very new?
I guessed you either skipped my post or else believe Howard is going to give you a different answer. But the guitar is completely safe to handle at this point. You and he needn't worry, even if deep within your hearts you WANT to worry...


whm

Last edited by Wade Hampton; 06-06-2011 at 01:44 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:20 PM
dablues dablues is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
I guessed you either skipped my post or else believe Howard is going to give you a different answer. But the guitar is completely safe to handle at this point. You and he needn't worry, even if deep within your hearts you WANT to worry...


whm
Thanks Wade, just trying to find answers. I have had someone tell me they thought their Martin guitar was more susceptible to scratches right after they bought it new.
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:21 PM
Misifus Misifus is offline
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Wade mostly knows his beans. (except for the bit about the oven. Sheesh, wood and nitrocellulose at 350? That takes at least 400)

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Old 06-06-2011, 07:21 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Well, it's not impossible, I suppose. Humidity plays a role in how quickly lacquer cures, and if your friend was living in a really humid area - like Kansas City, where I'm from, in the dog days of August when it's 100ºF and 100% humidity for weeks on end.

Theoretically I guess a guitar could be softer for longer under those circumstances.

But Martin doesn't send them out the factory door if the lacquer is too soft for the guitar to be safely handled. I've heard of all sorts of lore about things we're allegedly supposed to worry about with Martin guitars, but scratching up more easily when brand new isn't one I've heard before.

So I really wouldn't worry about it, frankly.

Hope this helps.


whm
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:37 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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The other possibility is that your friend got one of those Martin guitars that did have defective lacquer on it. Maybe four or five years ago now their lacquer supplier sent them a bad batch of lacquer, and to make things worse the problems didn't begin manifesting themselves until several months after the guitars had left the factory.

It's the only time I've ever heard of where Martin accepted warranty claims on finish issues. Normally 999 times out of a thousand finish problems are caused by owners doing something unintentionally stupid and destructive, like leaving the guitar in a closed car when the outdoor temperature is up around 100º, or put it up too close to a woodstove, or whatever.

But this time the lacquer itself was bad, and so Martin took care of that for their customers.

I don't know whether any sort of recall went out or if they just dealt with individual cases as they arose (I suspect the latter.) In any event, there's be at least one documented recent problem where a number of instruments left the factory with defective lacquer finishes.

But I doubt your friend's brand new Martin will have the same problems as that one bad batch had.

Hope this helps.


whm
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:38 PM
dablues dablues is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
Well, it's not impossible, I suppose. Humidity plays a role in how quickly lacquer cures, and if your friend was living in a really humid area - like Kansas City, where I'm from, in the dog days of August when it's 100ºF and 100% humidity for weeks on end.

Theoretically I guess a guitar could be softer for longer under those circumstances.

But Martin doesn't send them out the factory door if the lacquer is too soft for the guitar to be safely handled. I've heard of all sorts of lore about things we're allegedly supposed to worry about with Martin guitars, but scratching up more easily when brand new isn't one I've heard before.

So I really wouldn't worry about it, frankly.

Hope this helps.


whm
Hey, thanks. I live in North Carolina and it can get pretty humid here during the summer months. I haven't any problems with my Martin but it sat in the store a few weeks before it came home with me.
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:27 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dablues View Post
So does my friend need to be concerned about his guitar being more prone to getting scratches while its still very new?
The short answer is no. It's not necessary to be concerned.

The longer answer is that the lacquer does continue to harden for a while, but it has already done 98% of its curing, the remaining 2% takes a year or so, and the likelihood of something scratching it now that wouldn't scratch it in a month is so tiny as to be not worth thinking about.

The even longer answer is that if he scratches it now, he will have a working guitar instead of a wall hanging, and can relax and play it more.
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