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  #1  
Old 02-26-2015, 12:21 AM
sbpark sbpark is offline
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Default Have a LR Baggs M80 in my acoustic, considering a K&K pure mini...

Installed an LR Baggs M80 in my old '97 Yamaha FG441S. The M80 is very bright and very 'metallic' sounding, which is interesting because the guitar acoustically sounds pretty fat. How would a K&K Pure Mini sound compared to the M80? Running the M80 into a Para DI at the moment, with a little reverb from a Holy Grail and sometimes add some compression with a Boss CS-2. Sounds too 'high end' for me regardless of the amp I use and also when run through stage monitors.

Just wondering if the K&K would capture the natural sound of the guitar better than the M80?
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:15 AM
sbpark sbpark is offline
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nobody can offer experience comparing these two?
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Old 02-26-2015, 12:41 PM
Hotspur Hotspur is offline
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Seems like lots of folks are impatient today.

These things are hard to answer, because everybody has different experiences.

I haven't had both of these in one guitar, which is what someone would really need to answer your question. However, there are samples comparing them online you can find.

When I listen to those, the K&K sounds less magnetic, but it sounds a little "thudy"- particularly when strummed. In my opinion, the K&K gives you you a very good natural sound with light playing, but quickly gets dull with a harder attack.

YMMV. I haven't sat there with an EQ to really try to dial it in, and it really does depend a lot on how you play with it.

Given those two choices and only those two choices, I would pick the K&K if I was mostly playing solo/coffeehouse/fingerstyle and the M80 is I was playing mostly with a band or did a lot of heavy strumming.
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Old 02-26-2015, 04:49 PM
Jeffe26 Jeffe26 is offline
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Default Have a LR Baggs M80 in my acoustic, considering a K&K pure mini...

I considered the K&K a lot before pullin the trigger on an M80. Mostly because if I didn't like the M80 I could just put it back in the box and sell it. But I actually really love the M80, and am surprised you have found it to sound bright and metallic. What woods are on your guitar? Have you tried adjusting the pole pieces? And what string material do you use?
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Old 02-26-2015, 06:15 PM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
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I'd suggest you learn how use that ParaDI. There's no reason for an M80 to sound bright and metallic, unless you EQ it incorrectly. My M1a can sound thunderous, even in my OM's.
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Old 02-26-2015, 06:44 PM
pipedwho pipedwho is offline
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Bright and metallic is not how I'd describe the M80. As posted above, make sure you adjust the pole pieces.

Also, record your guitar signal and play it back (or use a looper pedal). Sometimes the phasing between the guitars natural tone and the pickup's output can make things sound a little thin. Meanwhile, the audience hears a great live tone since they only hear the FOH speakers.
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Old 02-26-2015, 07:25 PM
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noledog noledog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyAxe View Post
I'd suggest you learn how use that ParaDI. There's no reason for an M80 to sound bright and metallic, unless you EQ it incorrectly. My M1a can sound thunderous, even in my OM's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipedwho View Post
Bright and metallic is not how I'd describe the M80. As posted above, make sure you adjust the pole pieces.

Also, record your guitar signal and play it back (or use a looper pedal). Sometimes the phasing between the guitars natural tone and the pickup's output can make things sound a little thin. Meanwhile, the audience hears a great live tone since they only hear the FOH speakers.
+1...+1...I use both live in straight into 2 tandem Loudbox Performers, phat & loud...I padded my mounts, tweaked the poles and proper eq and phasing is key!

M1A in Lowden:




M80 in D18:


Recent live recording M80 in D18 thru two Loudbox Performers (use headphones not laptop speakers to listen):

http://youtu.be/CBD5KgNU1Rg

These two Baggs models have a dual source effect if that's what your looking for and do it well with minimal feedback issues and I play a huge variety from fingerstyle, country, reggae, using flesh, picks and the combo of both...they do a good job imho...However when I play complete fingerstyle at low volume and/or for recording I have a Baggs I-Beam in my Goodall, but it would not cut it with my normal gigs due to high resonance feedback. Best wishes!
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Old 02-27-2015, 03:20 AM
pmarino pmarino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbpark View Post
nobody can offer experience comparing these two?
I've posted before about this, explaining my decision on these two pickups. I had a K&K system in all my guitars and was a fairly big advocate for them. At least two other players in my 'circuit' now have K&Ks in their guitars in part due to my recommendation.

That said, I eventually fell out of love with the tone I was getting CONSISTENTLY at shows. Sometimes it was incredible, other times it was boomy and the feedback issues were difficult to deal with. So, I switched to a Baggs M80. I say this with all respect to the K&K system and lovers of it, but as someone who gigs often, it was the best move I ever made. Great, lush tone, and consistently so from the M80. I can play straight into the board, or (as I often do) through a Fishman Platinum Pro Analog EQ DI, and I get a lovely acoustic tone, with zero annoyance issues. I still believe K&Ks are one of the most natural sounding systems out there, when you can get the sound just right... But I love the M80's sound, and I especially love the confidence it provides me going into any show, that my guitar will sound very good.

That's been my experience, anyway. I'm sure there are others who switched from an M80 to a K&K and couldn't be happier. Such is the nature of the beast...
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:23 AM
dcopper dcopper is offline
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I have actually used both in one guitar - Taylor 914.
The M80 is a soundhole pickup, unique in its ability to translate the body frequencies as well as the string acticulation. As far as soundhole pickups go, I think it is excellent, second only to my Sunrise being my soundhole pickup of choice.
I had no issues with tone, feedback etc., with the M80. I ran it through a SansAmp Acoustic DI with tube emulation and it sounded fat and warm. The key is the preamp. If you turn it to "passive" mode, then the LR Baggs PADI works well too.
I like that easy plug and play ability and no problem being heard without feedback.

That all said, I also installed the K&K pm in the same guitar. As so many people on this forum have said, K&K is an excellent choice. YES, there can be some "boominess" that you can remedy with either a K&K preamp or some roll off on the bass and low mids. Once you get that, I think you get a very nice, warm acoustic tone. I can get that just as easily on the Fishman LB Performer itself just by rolling the bass down to about 9 o'clock and boosting the treble to about 3 o'clock. I also cut the mids down to about 9 o'clock. My AER 60/3 is less forgiving and I definitely need a preamp. A much easier remedy for any situation is the RedEye preamp that at least for me, does it all just by plugging in - I then can tweak the treble as I see fit.

If I had to choose between the two, I would select the K&K. I think it is easy to remedy the bottom heavy bass and low mids. It is a warmer sound. BUT you can always run into feedback in some venues and setups. The M80 avoids that completely in my experience.

So, I installed the K&K and use it with my Sunrise, mixing the two to get a very sweet acoustic tone. You could do the same with the M80 if you like. I would just switch the M80 to passive mode if you want to mount it to the stereo output jack of the K&K. Ohterwise just use it out of the soundhole and mix it in with your K&K on the board or two channel blender or amp.

Best of both worlds,
davidc
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Old 02-27-2015, 10:41 AM
Jeffe26 Jeffe26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarino View Post
So, I switched to a Baggs M80. I say this with all respect to the K&K system and lovers of it, but as someone who gigs often, it was the best move I ever made. Great, lush tone, and consistently so from the M80. I can play straight into the board, or (as I often do) through a Fishman Platinum Pro Analog EQ DI, and I get a lovely acoustic tone, with zero annoyance issues.
That's something I was curious about. Would you say there is a significant difference/improvement in sound when running the M80 through a DI?
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Old 02-27-2015, 10:52 AM
GGinMP GGinMP is offline
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I love the sound of the Trance Amulet M in my CFox Concert. A little more money than the K&K w/out a pre-amp, but I've been very pleased with it (I opted for the MV model with volume knob @ the sound hole). It would be nice not to have to think about the interior battery, so the K&K wins in that regard.
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Old 02-28-2015, 04:09 AM
pmarino pmarino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffe26 View Post
That's something I was curious about. Would you say there is a significant difference/improvement in sound when running the M80 through a DI?
Yeah, definitely. To be fair, I get great sound from the M80 on its own, but I've used a Baggs Venue Di and a one of the new Fishman Platinum EQ DIs, and both boxes really enhance the sound. I'm sticking with the Fishman for now, due its analog design and its compressor function. But both are excellent matches for the M80.
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