Martin Guitars Not "Made in the USA" ?

[otis66]

Originally Posted by mcduffnw

otis66

Um...you did notice that this thread you commented on today was 5 years old...?...

How did you find it to comment on it?


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

My Martin Custom D was delivered Friday March 20, 2020. As I was inspecting the guitar I noticed nowhere on the guitar did it say Made in the USA or Made in Mexico. I was worried about where the guitar was made, so I googled “Martin no longer made in USA. This thread was at the top of the list.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by otis66

My Martin Custom D was delivered Friday March 20, 2020. As I was inspecting the guitar I noticed nowhere on the guitar did it say Made in the USA. I was worried about where the guitar was made, so I googled “Martin no longer made in USA. This thread was at the top of the list.

There are laws - federal and state - governing what is required for an item to be described as "Made in USA." The California law is particularly stringent.

https://www.consumerproductslawblog....de-in-usa-law/

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...e-usa-standard

[otis66]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

There are laws - federal and state - governing what is required for an item to be described as "Made in USA." The California law is particularly stringent.

https://www.consumerproductslawblog....de-in-usa-law/

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...e-usa-standard

What ever the law is, Taylor, Gibson, and Larrivee can put “made in USA on thier guitars. Martin cannot put made in USA on thier guitars.

[ataylor]

Originally Posted by otis66

My Martin Custom D was delivered Friday March 20, 2020. As I was inspecting the guitar I noticed nowhere on the guitar did it say Made in the USA or Made in Mexico. I was worried about where the guitar was made, so I googled “Martin no longer made in USA. This thread was at the top of the list.

If you look to the right of the C.F. Martin & Co / Nazareth PA stamp on the center strip inside the guitar, there should be some additional verbiage there that says something like “crafted in the USA from components sourced around the world” or similar.

Martin has gone this route to avoid overly-aggressive lawsuits in certain states. The bonus here is that it gives a decidedly more vintage look to the C.F. Martin stamp. I believe the “Made in USA” was added sometime in the 50s or 60s, whereas the current design with the arched “C.F. Martin & Co” over the city name dates back to 1898 for Nazareth PA and I believe all the way back to 1833 for the guitars stamped with New York.

It’s a smart move and it looks great. I much prefer the classic look here:

[JonWint]

Originally Posted by otis66

What ever the law is, Taylor, Gibson, and Larrivee can put “made in USA on thier guitars. Martin cannot put made in USA on thier guitars.

Rosewood, mahogany, and many tuning machines are imported. That can easily put domestic materials wholesale cost below 90 to 95%. I suspect Martin doesn't want to waste time marking a few of their models Made in USA when most can't meet CA statutes.

They have better uses for their time.

[lt20dbl]

Seems that common sense has flown out the window and more and more, we cater to the obsessive nitpicking of the soulless or mentally ill.

[Robin, Wales]

Well, following the GPB crashing against the USD after Brexit and now even further due to Covid-19, "Made in the USA" simply means that if you live in Wales you can't afford it

[fuman]

It's possible that the interpretation is unconstitutional. Commercial speech rights have gotten a toehold in the Supreme Court (ironically, the barratry-in-fact advertising of the legal profession was a pioneer in this field).

The issue would be whether or not Martin's label is "misleading." There is no protection for misleading speech. A "reasonable person" standard would easily conform to this, but a strict interpretation with no exceptions for de minimis imported content, or no concern about what "made" means (i.e., holding that the woods "grown" in foreign countries render the product foreign "made") would unreasonably restrict the ability of a USA manufacturer to garner the premium that comes from a domestic product, including, especially, the high labor costs that raise the price.

It looks like Martin isn't interested in litigating this in California. But I would love to see a group of owners of the "new" unlabeled Martins sue, as a class, for an injunctions and restitution from the trial lawyers involved, on grounds that their products are now less valuable because Martin does, in fact, "make" guitars in Mexico, and those guitars are less expensive and less valuable than the "Made-in-USA"-labeled Martins. You would need data and an expert opinion to that effect, so it might take some time. But California has created market confusion to benefit one class of commecical actors at the expense of another, and the state and the trial lawyers should pay for that, in a just world.

[otis66]

I spoke with Martin guitars this afternoon.
My Martin Custom D Classic is indeed made at the Nazareth PA, factory. It’s made with the simple Dove joint. And it is made with Honduras Mahogany back, sides and neck. Rosewood fretboard and bridge.
There is no back strip on my Custom D Classic.

[pjroberts]

I know “Made in the USA” has some legal implications, and common law evolves based on previous cases that interpret a law, or the words, at any given time — so the legal definition can evolve over time just based on the judges doing the interpretation ... we see this in constitutional law frequently as different political leaning/influenced courts interpret and rule based on their liberal or conservative interpretation of the law. It’s not set in stone, but the safest thing to do from a profit standpoint is to avoid unnecessary risk.

You see other approaches to compromise, like “Assembled in USA” and “Manufactured in USA”, though manufactured might imply ever bolt was sourced material and made here too. Even in California you see great variation in application of similar laws. Here in Napa there is regulation stipulating that to use “Napa Valley” on the wine label appellation is only legal if the grapes are 75% sourced from Napa County vineyards! Only 75%, in a case where this can have a discernible impact in taste and quality or consistency (if you twist your nose and swish your glass in the “proper” way when tasting). Maybe Martin just needs to imprint it:

Made in USA*

[TDavis]

Major league stupidity, if you ask me. It doesn't matter that some parts of a Martin guitar is sourced from international manufacturers...they are indeed assembled in the USA. It could be that the tuners, nuts, saddles and the like are gleaned from other companies outside the US...but the Martin GUITARS are made here, or at least most are.

I'm in the automobile business...and I sell a leading "American" car brand. Guess what? Many of the parts on these "American cars" are made by Toyota and other international manufacturers! So what? They are assembled by American workers, in American plants using components & parts that are largely made here in the USA.

Sounds like legal-beagle horse hockey to me!

[Groberts]

Absolute nonsense! Does that mean that Martins that used Brazilian Rosewood are not "Made in the USA?" What a boatload of nonsense. Nothing to see here folks other than Bureaucrats at their lowest.

[Photojeep]

Originally Posted by Groberts

Absolute nonsense! Does that mean that Martins that used Brazilian Rosewood are not "Made in the USA?" What a boatload of nonsense. Nothing to see here folks other than Bureaucrats at their lowest.

Yup. Utter nonsense.

PJ