Old Harmony lowered action but ...

[Theleman]

I have ordered a new set of saddle and nut. Will replace them and see it will go.

[Theleman]

Last night, I had another look at the 5th string. It buzzed when finger freted on the 10th fret and played on the string between 10th fret and the saddle, but when plucked on the other half of the string from 10th fret to the nut, there was no buzzing. And there was no buzzing from every fret above 10th fret to the nut part of string was played.

So I concluded the buzzing is from the part where string sits on the saddle and bridge. Indeed when I put my ear closely to the bridge, when tried the usual 10th fret and upwards between the saddle, the buzzing was coming from the saddle or bridge.

I slid in thin plastic between the string and the saddle - it was actually Amazon Gift Card, and lifted the string, wriggled about (string was still tight not loosened), and it moved its position tiny little bit to the side on the saddle.

It was not buzzing then. Buzzing has gone.

So now it plays perfect clear tone on all strings. But I will still replace the saddle and nut with the new ones when they arrive.

[CabinetMan]

Originally Posted by Frank Ford

I'd say the chance is near 100% thet this old Harmony has neck angle issues.

We don't often reset necks on instruments in this value range, but that is likely to be what it "needs" to restore playability.

Take some time to go through the BUZZ DIAGNOSIS PAGES for some interesting info.

And, a bit on CHECKING NECK ANGLE

Great info there. Thanks for posting the links.

[Theleman]

Yes, they really are great sites with useful info. Book marked them. Thank you.

I also think my ground saddle is too low - gone too much grinding.
Waiting for the new saddle kit to arrive.

[Truckjohn]

If you have no buzzing from the nut to the 10th fret - it's not a saddle problem. It's not a string break angle problem....

It's a fret plane problem... Perhaps a "hump" or "ski jump" where the neck meets the body...

Saddle problems buzz at every fret..

Yes - Raising the action will make this problem go away... But it is not "The cure" if you want a guitar that's easy to play..

Question - does it look like the neck is starting to pull loose from the body at the neck heel? Any visible gaps or whitish stress marks in the paint at the heel?

[Theleman]

The neck seems straight with no bumps, bends or any visible problem visually. In fact the neck and fretboard looks perfect and solid.

Frets are a bit worn through 30 - 40 years use. But not too bad.

Quite like this Harmony, because it is all Mahogany and has sweet tone.

I have the S101 Dread and Samick Jumbo for my main guitars which are perfect set up in every way, so just playing around with this old Harmony for experimenting and learning.

[Br1ck]

If you are going to mess around with old inexpensive guitars, and I totally encourage it, you need to invest in some not inexpensive tools. An 18" machinist's straight edge is top of the list.

The most important aspect of a good setup is a fret level. Learn to do this and the world becomes your oyster. Frank Ford uses a wood plain with sandpaper. You can use a level and sandpaper, or buy a fret level file. Then you need nut files,and though not necessary ( see frets.com) I find fret crowing files very useful and essential if you want to do a maple neck strat.

I have a luthier who almost not do a setup without the fretwork, and over time I have come around to his way of thinking.


With a straightedge and either a fret rocker or aluminum bar cut to the correct lengths and filed straight, you can find problem frets.

If a guitar like a Harmony should need a reset, you can cheat and take the back off, jack the neck angle to the correct place, and reglue the back on. You will have an overhang at the back at the heal you can trim off and rebind.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

Frank Ford uses a wood plain with sandpaper.

Actually, Frank uses a metal plane with sandpaper ... his choice ...

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

With a straightedge and either a fret rocker or aluminum bar cut to the correct lengths and filed straight, you can find problem frets.

Just playing each note individually at each fret will tell you if you have fret or fingerboard problems. If that identifies one or more problem areas, a straightedge can be useful, as can sighting down the fingerboard.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Just playing each note individually at each fret will tell you if you have fret or fingerboard problems. If that identifies one or more problem areas, a straightedge can be useful, as can sighting down the fingerboard.

I feel I have to take issue with you there , Charles.

I have seen many dismissive comments over the years from high end luthiers regarding fret rockers, but the fact is that they are extremely useful tools for the day-to-day diagnosis of fretboard problems.

Playing each note individually at each fret is not something I would even contemplate as a diagnostic process. For starters, if the action is too high, it tells you nothing... uneven frets will sound OK when the action is high, but will buzz when the action is lowered.

What the fret rocker can do is identify a maverick high fret, which can be treated prior to an overall leveling (which is in fact required in almost all cases) or alternatively it can identify a low fret which can be individually attended to to ensure that the leveling doesn't remove unnecessary material from every fret.

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by Theleman

Now, the 5th string is buzzing from 10th fret upwards.
Should raise back the action a bit again?

For the lay person (not used offensively), it can be very hard to diagnose what is wrong with a Guitar.

For a repairer (hopefully a good one) it will take less than a minute to work out what’s wrong with your guitar, I encourage everyone to have a go, but I feel with the way this topic has transgressed and the round and round the mulberry bush process that is happening you should consider having a luthier set it up for you.

Once a guitar has been Setup for you, take measurements, this will let you know what your guitar is capable of.

Setting a Guitar up is easy if you do it everyday.

Reading how to do something and being shown how to do it are two entirely different things, like driving a manual car, reading it is easy, doing it is easy, but likely someone had to teach you one on one to do it, some people however are special and never need anything more than the written word.

Steve

[Frank Ford]

Steve -

Thanks for that insightful clearly presented bit of wisdom! As trivial as it might seem, "setup" can draw on the most deep and complete knowledge of the luthier.

There are so many variables and conditions that can color the diagnosis that it can be nearly impossible to list them all and/or convey the complexity to the novice.

I work alongside several others who are seriously talented guitar repairers with years of full time experience, but every so often I can point immediately to a problem they haven't encountered. There simply is NO substitute for experience. If you think that is wrong, you are thinking incorrectly. To push the point further would drag us into politics. .. .

[printer2]

Originally Posted by Frank Ford

There simply is NO substitute for experience.

My problem is I forgot more than I remember.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

I feel I have to take issue with you there , Charles.

Feel free.