Yamaha ?

GM60466 · #1 09-22-2010, 07:00 PM

This is my first post here.
I went to an audition this afternoon. For the last 27 years I play a late-'50s Gibson C6 that has been professionally set to play like butter. I am only the second owner, and until this afternoon I thought it was a great guitar.
There was another player with a older made in Japan mid-'50s Yamaha C60A - cedar top with maple back and side. He told me that he changes strings twice a year if it needs it or not. His guitar blew mine away, both in volume and tone. The guy handling the audition even remarked on this guy's sound.
Is this kind of Yamaha something out of the ordinary or should I be looking for one to add to my arsenal?

Thanks

gary0319 · #2 09-22-2010, 07:53 PM

Yamaha makes excellent guitars, both steel string and nylons, and at all price levels. I have had a number of Yamahas and still have two. MY CGX 171 SCF is a great Flamenco-type for outdoor concert settings, and has "pretty good" tone unplugged as well. Bought it used of Ebay for a song (+shipping).

One a side note.......When shopping for Home Theater gear, a wise man once told me. "If it goes in your ears, buy it from Yamaha. If it goes in your eyes, buy it from Sony. There is a reason that Yamaha doesn't make TV's, and..........that Sony doesn't make pianos."

Gary

sneaky · #3 09-22-2010, 08:26 PM

I own quite a few old Yamahas from the early`50s to the mid `60s...went out of production once Yamaha opened their own factory in 1966. I have never seen a C60A from that time period...all of the ones I own and see are Yamaha Dynamics, there were some small differences between the exports and domestics cosmetically but all were solid Ezo spruce tops with solid flamed maple backs and sides. All had fatter thicker necks than classical guitars have today. The Dynamics came in several models and colors...the labels went through many changes which is the best way to get a ballpark year...that and the serial...but precise data has been impossible to find so far.
I could go on but since the guitar is not yours it may get boring but if you are thinking of watching for old Yamaha, watch for the Dynamics...they sound fabulous and I have paid as little as $10.00 for some and the most I shelled out was about $150.00...for all solid wood guitars that sound and play great, hard to believe but true. So many people are fixated on the red labels these days while the Dynamics go almost completely unnoticed.

Oetomoepi · #4 09-22-2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gary0319

One a side note.......When shopping for Home Theater gear, a wise man once told me. "If it goes in your ears, buy it from Yamaha. If it goes in your eyes, buy it from Sony. There is a reason that Yamaha doesn't make TV's, and..........that Sony doesn't make pianos."

Gary

I will always keep this advice in mind.
I have always loved Yamaha guitars, especially the classical one. I have a CG171S, the sustain and tone of this guitar is just incredible. It is just perfect for fingerpicking tunes.

sneaky · #5 09-22-2010, 08:32 PM

heres the only site I know of dedicated to the Dynamics...never mind the Japanese script...just look at the pics...you will see the different labels, model numbers and colors. They did export some of these so they are seen outside Japan.

http://www.geocities.jp/mmasmcb/catalog.html

sneaky · #6 09-22-2010, 08:37 PM

heres a link to somebody playing some of them...

http://www.geocities.jp/mmasmcb/kyoku/original.html

GM60466 · #7 09-22-2010, 08:40 PM

thanks
The owner did mention to me that his 60A had a gold and black label. If that means anything.
The only one I could find online was this one
http://www.gbase.com/gear/yamaha-c-60a-1950,

But it was long gone

sneaky · #8 09-22-2010, 09:04 PM

can`t see the label in the link so no idea. One more thing...Yamaha did not have a factory in the `50s...so they didn`t build the Dynamics...just who did remains a mystery though some of the guys at that site I linked have uncovered the name Suzuki...which is not that far fetched since they`d been building for years already...my oldest Suzuki is a `48. So once Yamaha did open their first factory the Dynamics bit the dust...but be careful...the S series Dynamics...the S-50 and S-70 were laminates...the previous Dynamics were all solid...easy to spot the difference...they say S-50/S-70 on the labels...the solids do not. I own one of each of the S series and they are OK but nothing like the non laminate Dynamics. At the link I added above, the first yellow/black labels seen are the oldest models and were exports...the #30, 50 and 70...only differences were inlays and rosettes...all were solid Ezo/maple. The owner of the site has them in order of time...can`t really say year `cause nobody knows with 100% certainty...my oldest has a 3 digit serial...the earliest known according to that site.
From what I`ve read the earliest true classicals were the GCs, made with help from a well known Spanish luthier whose name escapes me now and I don`t feel like digging through all my stuff to find it but it is on line somewhere...and evidently they were released in `67. Yamaha did make other classical "types" that were not Dynamics...though they had Dynamic style necks...fat and thick not flat and wide like later versions.
I jave posted pics at this site in other threads of some of my old Yamahas, which could be found with a search though they are the same ones seen at the linked site...with an exception...at the site they stop with the No. 120 at the bottom...but I have a couple of No. 150s made from Palisander rosewood and Ezo spruce.

sneaky · #9 09-22-2010, 09:13 PM

link to the oldest Yamaha catalogs I`ve seen on line...

http://www.oldguitar.jp/catalog/yamaha_2.html

sneaky · #10 09-23-2010, 01:52 AM

just had a brain wave and I think the name of the Spanish luthier that helped Yamaha develop their first true classicals is Ferrer....maybe Jose...and that line can be seen in the link to the old catalogs...the GC-5, 7 and 10 models.

Oooops...not Jose but...this is taken from the web...

" Eduardo Ferrer - Born in 1905. In 1915 or 1917 he began working in his uncle's shop. A few years later he thought he might like to become a priest. He changed his mind and in 1925 when Benito died, he took charge of his uncle's shop. In 1966-1968 he spent 3 months each year in Japan showing Yamaha workers how to build guitars. He also taught every guitar maker in Granada "

GM60466 · #11 09-23-2010, 05:23 AM

I had this guy's number, so I called him last night. He recalls his father buying this particular guitar in 1957 or 58. The top is spruce with a orange tint applied. It was $50 with a chipboard case.
He says the Model 80c had mahogany back and sides, and there was a model with brazilian rosewood back and sides.

I'm still amazed at the guitars sound. I'll be seeing him later today. We both got call backs.

sneaky · #12 09-23-2010, 06:35 AM

well with Yamaha I never say anything is impossible, it`s just so hard finding concrete data on the old ones. So, if that particular guitar was made in the `50s and is not a Dynamic than it`s a first for me. I`m certain the members at that Dynamic forum would love to hear about the guitar as would the authors who wrote the Japanese books I have with extensive articles and photos of early Yamahas `cause there is no mention of any C models nor anything on the web that I`ve seen referring to C models being made at that time. But I`ll have a look around `cause it wouldn`t be the first time I`ve been surprised by old MIJs.
What type of neck would you say yours has...a typical classical neck...flat and wide?

sneaky · #13 09-23-2010, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GM60466

I had this guy's number, so I called him last night. He recalls his father buying this particular guitar in 1957 or 58. The top is spruce with a orange tint applied. It was $50 with a chipboard case.
He says the Model 80c had mahogany back and sides, and there was a model with brazilian rosewood back and sides.

I'm still amazed at the guitars sound. I'll be seeing him later today. We both got call backs.

interesting...the early `60s models I have and seen in the link of old catalogs I posted above show the No. 100 as being flamed maple...the 120 as being mahogany...and the 150 as Palisander rosewood. Some of my old MIJs came with what I reluctantly call a hard case...more like a pliable not very hard...hard case. certainly would not ship a guitar home to Canada from here in one.
I assume the guitars you mention were available outside Japan? `cause theres no info about those being sold domestically.

GM60466 · #14 09-23-2010, 12:02 PM

Well. I got a closer look at the C60A this afternoon. The back and rims are unfigured maple and the top is spruce. The owner says that his father purchased it new in 1959, not 1956, in a small shop in chicago. It does not say "YAMAHA" anywhere on the headstock. The inside label is rather big with black and gold ink and says Nippon Gakki C60 A. The fingerboard is rosewood flat and wide. It has a huge sound under the earI compared it to the guitar here at http://www.gbase.com/gear/yamaha-c-60a-1950 and it could its twin.
Do you know when about Yamaha started using the tuning fork logo on the headstock?

GuitarVlog · #15 09-23-2010, 01:05 PM

Something doesn't sound right.

Yamaha didn't start selling their guitars in the US until the mid-1960s.

Guitars that WERE built by Yamaha and sold in Japan prior to their introduction in the US never had a model name that was prefixed by "C" as far as I know. And they were referred to as "Dynamic" guitars. So even if you got a guitar that someone brought over from Japan back in the '50s, there is none in their historical builds that would correspond to the instrument you have described.

That's as much as I know.

EDIT: However, I will note that I do like Yamaha classical and flamenco guitars. I have a CG171SF and a C40. I also like their new lineup introduced for 2010.