Newbie with opinions on guitars in general but Taylors in specific

[DukeX]

Originally Posted by Luckymud

I would just like to say that I love this reply.

Yes, Wade nailed it, as usual.

[ChrisN]

Sounds like a little buyer's remorse, akin to jumping into the deep end of the pool, thinking it wasn't such a good idea and trying to return to the side to exit, without sinking. I agree with the rest. Play the 714 for a few weeks without touching the 214, THEN try the 214 to compare. Going back and forth with the new kid and your old favorite during the same period will just lead to confusion.

[Billkwando]

Let me play Devil's advocate here and say, sometimes, when you're right, you're right.

There's no need to keep playing the guitar until you convince yourself you like it (), and there's nothing wrong with having only one guitar. 12 string doesn't count if you don't want it to. One day I'll get one again....

I have a Taylor Academy 10 that I put a barn door Fishman in, and I love it. I adooooore it. To my ears, it sounds just like the tone I hear on a lot of my favorite acoustic guitar recordings, which is all I wanted. I mainly play electric and I have enough of those as it is.

What I would recommend, as a simple way to isolate this idea that how it plays is influencing how it sounds to you, is to have a friend play them both. A blind taste test. Turn your back, cover your eyes, whatever, and have a friend play the same thing(s) on both and see if you can tell the difference. If you can, and you like your original guitar better, congrats! If you can't tell them apart, or suddenly decide you like the new guitar better, then proceed to the guitar hospital for a setup.
Experiment with positioning as well. Stand over your friend's shoulder, as well as sitting in front of them, to simulate what you hear when you're actually playing it. Have fun with it.

I would definitely suggest, as others have, using the same strings you already like.

About cutaway, I think you'll find that the general consensus (last I looked into it) is that the cutaway doesn't affect the sound in any significant way, and that the area is not the most "vibrationally active" part of the guitar (enough to affect the tone).
Also I think that for every person you find who believes in the Tonerite, you'll find another person who says that the Tonerite is pure placebo effect (and the latter camp has a research paper that would seem to assert the same). This is not intended to start an argument, but rather to suggest you save your $100 and read up on it (or just be aware that there isn't universal consensus that it works at all). If you were able to tell your guitars apart, your ears will probably not fail you here either. Maybe borrow one and see if you can spot a change.

Once you make a decision, either way you win. You get a guitar you have confidence in and can appreciate the nuances of, or you get to recoup a bad investment, hopefully without too much pain.

Good luck!

[der Geist]

Originally Posted by beyeond

Doesn't the 714 have a cedar top? Or is that just some of them? If so, I suppose that could be a factor too.

The new 714’s have a Lutz Spruce W/Rosewood. I think the older models had Cedar tops.

[JohnW63]

If it IS a Cedar over Rosewood guitar, that WILL sound different. I played a few 714s a few years back and they were cedar. I really liked them. I like the moodier sound of Cedar. The Spruces will be brighter. Once the Cedar gets a little playing in, it is easier to get loud, but can't be played really hard, because it just doesn't work well driven hard.

If it is a newer model and is a type of Spruce, that changes my thoughts. I would try a few different strings on it and see if they wake it up.

[RP]

Originally Posted by JohnW63

If it IS a Cedar over Rosewood guitar, that WILL sound different. I played a few 714s a few years back and they were cedar. I really liked them. I like the moodier sound of Cedar. The Spruces will be brighter. Once the Cedar gets a little playing in, it is easier to get loud, but can't be played really hard, because it just doesn't work well driven hard.

If it is a newer model and is a type of Spruce, that changes my thoughts. I would try a few different strings on it and see if they wake it up.

According to the OP, it's a 2017 714ce so it would have the Lutz Spruce top which is a bit more akin to Adirondack than Sitka Spruce....

[ctvolfan]

Thank you to everybody for their very well thought out replies to my dilemma. I will try to address as much as I can in this reply. Several of you had the same suggestions.

It's amazing how some things are so simple you don't see it. I guess I have tunnel vision when it comes to strings because I had not even thought about changing them. I do usually run the Elixir Nanoweb Phosphor Bronze Mediums on my 214. I guess I always thought Taylor knew what was best for their guitars so I have always stuck with them. I do like the extended life I get out of them. I will definitely try some other strings as suggested by many of you and in specific vindibona1. That is definitely a easy cheap place to start.

Just for the record my 2017 714ce is the one with the Lutz Spruce top and Rosewood back and sides. It was set up by the store I bought it from but I did take it to my certified Taylor technician that I have used for years and he did some adjustments on the action and that is about it. I actually was going to have him change the saddle and nut to bone but to my surprise it already had bone for both. I do like the added sustain of bone and he replaced the tusq ones with bone on my 214 a few years ago.

Yes my 2005 214 is Spruce top and Sepele back and sides. I agree that maybe I just like the tone woods better with this combo than with my new 714ce. Yes I do know that the 714ce is not my 214. I don't so much mind the tone coming from the 714ce. It is so sweet sounding. I think what I am really after is more volume. I was playing the 714ce outside on my porch the other day and I just wasn't feeling it. It just left something to be desired. I have really been trying to force myself to play it lately. I went back inside and got my 214 and started playing it and I instantly noticed how much louder and bolder my 214 was. It just had so much more punch than my 714ce. I have no idea if I can get that volume out of my 714ce or not. It is like when I play my 214 it is effortless to play. The 714ce seems like I have to put more effort into it when I play it. Weird! Maybe that ToneRite contraption would work? I had never heard of one until it was mentioned in one of the replies. Pretty cool! Maybe another set of strings can give me that volume I desire. I am a flat picker and I know that lots of people say that the GA body style is better for finger picking but I had not read that until years after I bought my 214 and the 214 sure was fine for flat picking up to the time I read that so I think that is just a matter of opinion.

I do have several different thicknesses of picks I go back and forth between. I prefer those Dunlop Tortex picks. I like that finish on them as they seem to not slip so easily. A friend of mine got me to using thick picks a few years ago and I am sold on the tone and volume I get with a thicker pick. I found that I prefer the 1.14 MM one the best but I sometimes use the 1.0MM and the .88MM. The thinner picks just sound like crap on either guitar in my opinion.

I do know that the nut width of my El Cajon made 214 from 2005 is 1 11/16 and my 714ce has one that is 1 3/4. I know it is a small difference but when something has been a part of you like my 214 has been for over 12 years, I can tell a difference. I am getting more used to playing the 714ce as far as feel. I don't necessarily think that has that much to do with the nut size as it does it just being a different guitar even though both are GA's.

Soon after I bought the 714ce I took it and my 214 to a friend of mine's house whom is a real musician (unlike me) to have him take a listen. He has many guitars and plays them all from a Santa Cruz to a Taylor 800 series. He said hands down my 714ce sounded best of my two. I thought if he says the 714ce was better sounding then it must be true. Satisfied with his answer I went home and played it for the next couple of days and decided that I have to go with my gut and not with anybody else's opinion because even though he said the 714ce was better, to my ears it just wasn't.

In the end I think I will just try some different strings first. At this point it is a used guitar so I can't take it back. The main reason I bought the 714ce was that when I was looking at it at the store I purchased it from it had a price tag of $2499 on it and I was shocked that it was that cheap. I see them regularly starting over 3K. I was able to get it out the door tax and all for $2800. So as long as I take good care of it I think my loss would be minimal if I am patient if I decide to sell it. I do love my 214. Maybe one of the other people that replied that said the lower end Taylors sound better is right. I paid under $900 for my 214 new in 2005 from Guitar Center and this guitar is worth so much more to me that what I paid for it. Somebody here locally had a 214 on Craigslist a few weeks ago that said it was 20 years old and had to sell it that day for $400. I replied back to him just to get a feel for it but he didn't reply back. I was seriously thinking about buying it even though it was the same model I already had. It would have been a steal for that price. I feel like I have a jewel in my 214 and I don't think I will ever part with it. Hopefully in time I can feel like that with my 714ce. Thanks again for all the replies. You guys definitely gave me some direction and I will also try to precede with more patience. I can always recoup most of my money from it. I will let you know what I think in the future about my 714ce after some string experimenting.

[TBman]

My 2 cents is that the op has a 12, 13 year old all solid wood Taylor which has "opened op." The 712 is no match for it now. The Taylor series has more to do with bling and selected tonewoods than an increase in tonal quality. That's why you can't order a 300 series with a cedar top. The simple act of grabbing a different top for a guitar is treated as an "upgrade" by Taylor which is nonsense.

[backdoc]

I agree with the suggestions to try different strings and get a good setup. I also agree with Wade. I had the good fortune to find deals on both a Martin OM-15 and an Eastman E6D last year and they showed up within a couple of days of each other. I played the snot out of the OM because I was on a small body kick and the Eastman was a big ole dread and I felt I was stupid for buying it. It was a close out deal and an impulse buy. But since then I started playing it more and after a while I found myself loving it more and more. Now I feel like I will never part with either.

I also bought a Martin 000-18 last year and am still on the hunt for the right setup (Going to Mark Kane in a couple of weeks for a setup.) and strings. I do NOT love that guitar yet.

Hopefully you will find the right setup and strings and play the mess out of that beautiful guitar. Best of luck!

[Billkwando]

Hi OP!

Also, if you're considering the Tonerite, the research paper I referenced previously (you may have missed it, above) is here:


https://mega.nz/#!V8V2EB4b!0Ouh966Ga...gigWXaAryRBYBM

Originally Posted by TBman

My 2 cents is that the op has a 12, 13 year old all solid wood Taylor which has "opened op." The 712 is no match for it now. The Taylor series has more to do with bling and selected tonewoods than an increase in tonal quality. That's why you can't order a 300 series with a cedar top. The simple act of grabbing a different top for a guitar is treated as an "upgrade" by Taylor which is nonsense.

Agreed., and I think it's important that folks understand that ALL Taylors are great guitars, typically, and that (as I've mentioned before) spending 5 times as much isn't going to get you a guitar that sounds 5 times better.


Edit: OH YEAH! If you do try the blind test, see if you can tell the difference in volume as a listener. If you want to make your guitar louder to YOU, then you could consider a tone port (I normally think they're silly, but it could be useful to you here). I also wonder if barn door electronics would provide enough "leakage" to simulate a tone port (enough to bring up the volume a bit), while adding some practical benefit (a tuner and pluggable goodness).

[ctvolfan]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Before you give up the ship and throw the 714 overboard I have a few thoughts...

First thought: STRINGS
If you're just using Elixir Nano lights because that's what Taylor recommends then you're cheating yourself. I have a 814ceDLX that just disappoints with Elixirs. It's the only acoustic I purchased sight unseen. I've tested all the Elixir gauges and found other brands that work so much better for that guitar. [It currently is a toss-up between GHS Signature Bronze True medium and Straight Up Strings medium tension.] Every individual guitar has its own characteristics and it is up to you the player to seek out the best of your guitar with the tone created with YOUR own hands. Obviously your 214 just fit that groove without doing much to coax it along. That's great. But obviously you're unhappy and may be just a string set away from being deliriously happy. Oh... In terms of ease of play, some of the sets have relatively low tensions for their gauges which makes it easier on the hands.

Have you tried different Elixir gauges? Have you tested the HD lights or the 12-56's? Other than Elixirs and based on your comments I'm going to recommend several string sets that I think would be a starting place.

1) GHS- Phosphor Bronze lights
2) GHS Signature Bronze (both Light and True Medium gauge- and Light with 13 and 17 upper strings)
3) DR Sunbeam 12-54 [The preferred string set for my '71 Martin D35]
4) DR Rares
4 Straight Up Strings (medium tension)
5) D'Addario Nickel Bronze

Each of these sets has different tonal properties that may or may not jive with your 714. If you buy them all it will cost less than $100. Play them for a few days, then try another set. If you're careful removing the strings, you can keep them and reinstall them subsequently to revisit them without having to buy additional sets... But you could do that too.

Second thought: TONERITE. I was lent one and was impressed enough with the initial treatment to buy my own. My Taylor 614ce (2011), after about 200 hours with the Tonerite had an amazing transformation. Before the Tonerite it was ok, but I longed for an 800 series guitar and bought one. I put my 614 up for sale. And then something surprising happened... It changed so radically that I could actually put Elixir strings on it and like them (a lot). My 614 is no longer for sale and while I previously would have traded up to a new 614 or 818 or 914... not any more. The difference was startling. It is important to note that three of my guitars have had many hours of the Tonerite process and all have improved, but not as drastically as the 614. You won't know until you try. As a new guitar it should open up at least marginally. . Again, only a $100 investment.

Third thought: Picks and your touch. Picks that sound great on your 214 may not be the best selection for your 714. It's a different animal and needs a different approach. What I am learning in my own playing is that to get the sounds that I want from my guitars I had/have to go to a much lighter touch (currently in the process of trying to make it habitual). With that I'm finding that I like different pick choices than previously including modifying some picks with speed bevels and other minor adjustments that seem to suit the situation.

One last thought... Nut size. I have to guess that your 214 has a 1 11/16" nut while your 714 has a 1 3/4" nut. There is no getting around it- you have to practice with it! I sort of felt that way too when I got my 614 with the 1 3/4" nut only previously having guitars with the narrower nut. At first I too found them more difficult to play (though a lot of guys really like the wider spacing). But once used to the wider nut I don't find my Taylors any more difficult or easier than my Martin, Epi or Yairis. You gotta take your 714 out of the case even if you think you (at this moment) like your 214 better.

Your preference of guitar ultimately may not change. But unless you can return your 714 at this date, what have you got to lose? I'll bet if you just take the 714 out of the case, find some strings and practice you'll change your mind in short order.

Good luck.

Well I ended up going with some different strings and it did make a huge difference. I went with the DR Rares in medium. It has quite a bit more volume or punch to it now which is what I was mostly looking for. With the Elixirs it just sounded wimpy. Even with the lack of volume I could tell is was a great sounding guitar. It still isn't as loud as my 214 but I really think that my 214 has just had years of drying out or opening up and just sounds more tight. And of course I am used to it. There is no doubt that the 714 has a great sound and I didn't expect it to sound like my 214. The 714 does have a much more sweeter sound than the 214. The 714 seems better for chording and my 214 seems better for picking solos.

The funny thing is that I took the Elixirs off of the 714 and put them on my 214 because it was time to replace the ones on the 214 anyway. The 214 sounded better with the Elixirs from the 714 since they were practically new. Maybe in time when the 714 opens up I will be able to put Elixirs back on it. I do like the longevity of the Elixirs. I really had tunnel vision and didn't even think about veering from the Elixirs since I thought Taylor knew what was best for their guitars but I do understand that they are also in a business agreement with Elixir. Thanks again for the suggestion! I will keep tinkering with different strings and settle on something.