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  #196  
Old 02-17-2015, 08:51 AM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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My guess is that the more challenging , the more interesting as well as rewarding .
You have an added factor in that you can't see what you are working on .
You may appreciate this .
A part of controlling my water here included the installation of a 6" gutter that collected and dispensed the rainwater or approx 4,000 sq ft of roof surface .
I designed it to drop from a typical roof edge gutter by about 1' and then turn to slope over 52' then turn 90 degrees downwards 3' and then turn 90 degrees a final time before exiting .
The Borough wanted to try to force me to change this to a 3' drop from the roof edge gutter to a straight 52' run and a direct exit with no turns near the end .
In a good rain , that water would have been shooting out of that gutter with so much force .
That 52' run would have fallen 4' after dropping 3' from the roof edge drain .
What do the numbers say ?
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  #197  
Old 02-18-2015, 01:12 PM
swadders swadders is offline
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Default Is it really important to have a college degree?

I suppose a lot of it depends on what is the degree going to lead to and why is the student wanting to do the degree. For example, if the student has a job or career in mind that requires a degree to be in with a shout of gaining employment, then obviously it would be vital. Alternatively, if the student has a deep-rooted love of the subject, then why not study it to a degree of excellence. Problems can arise when institutions place too much importance on education when it's plainly not required.

One guy in our music group at University was academically, not a high flier, but really talented. He got lambasted by one of the tutors who was a bully at the best of times. The guy ended up dropping out and starting his own band. Ironically, all these years later, out of that entire group the only one who went on to forge a successful career was this guy. He and his friend worked so hard for years and now run a successful acoustic wedding band.

It just goes to show: a degree can be useful, but not always the be all and end all to success in life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gFjLkTWC-M
www.rockmyreception.co.uk
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  #198  
Old 02-18-2015, 03:16 PM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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Originally Posted by swadders View Post
I suppose a lot of it depends on what is the degree going to lead to and why is the student wanting to do the degree. For example, if the student has a job or career in mind that requires a degree to be in with a shout of gaining employment, then obviously it would be vital. Alternatively, if the student has a deep-rooted love of the subject, then why not study it to a degree of excellence. Problems can arise when institutions place too much importance on education when it's plainly not required.

One guy in our music group at University was academically, not a high flier, but really talented. He got lambasted by one of the tutors who was a bully at the best of times. The guy ended up dropping out and starting his own band. Ironically, all these years later, out of that entire group the only one who went on to forge a successful career was this guy. He and his friend worked so hard for years and now run a successful acoustic wedding band.

It just goes to show: a degree can be useful, but not always the be all and end all to success in life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gFjLkTWC-M
www.rockmyreception.co.uk
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  #199  
Old 02-18-2015, 03:44 PM
GHS GHS is offline
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College education, though not always needed, is certainly not a negative. When I do talk to recent college age family members and friends I find it hard to believe they went thru four years of schooling. Years ago they taught you how to think, now they tell you what to think. Should be interesting world in a few years.
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  #200  
Old 02-18-2015, 07:50 PM
SongwriterFan SongwriterFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterhound View Post
My guess is that the more challenging , the more interesting as well as rewarding .
Indeed.

Quote:
You have an added factor in that you can't see what you are working on .
Indeed, again.

My brother is an electrical engineer (though he's into power transmission, not designing circuits/etc). But the analogy I give him is this:

An electrical engineer is told to make a box that does some function. It must be smaller than a certain size, and must weigh less than some specification, and must meet some price point.

The reservoir engineer, by comparison, is handed this item in a box, where he can't see it. He is allowed to measure voltage (equivalent of well pressure data) at various points every year or so. He can also measure amperage almost all the time at various points in the box (equivalent of well production data). He can also cut into the box occasionally and look around with a very bad flashlight so he can't see very far beyond the hole (equivalent of well logs and core). He gets to do this for x number of years . . . . and over time, he gets to figure out what's in the box, and predict how it's going to perform over time if various knobs are turned (or not).

BTW, you mentioned chess. Did you ever meet or interact with or hear of Mark Diesen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Diesen

I was a friend/co-worker of Mark for several years . . . he was an amazing reservoir engineer, and obviously a VERY talented chess player (read the bio). And also just a super-nice guy. I sure miss him.
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  #201  
Old 02-18-2015, 07:56 PM
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is offline
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Originally Posted by Basalt Beach View Post
IMO, the German decision to focus on education, with, if you want to call it the extra $$ they have available ( i use that term loosely), demonstrates the strategic importance they place on an educated and well trained workforce.
Strongly agree. That's why I think it would be instructive to watch them implement such a budget.
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  #202  
Old 02-18-2015, 08:25 PM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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Originally Posted by SongwriterFan View Post
Indeed.



Indeed, again.

My brother is an electrical engineer (though he's into power transmission, not designing circuits/etc). But the analogy I give him is this:

An electrical engineer is told to make a box that does some function. It must be smaller than a certain size, and must weigh less than some specification, and must meet some price point.

The reservoir engineer, by comparison, is handed this item in a box, where he can't see it. He is allowed to measure voltage (equivalent of well pressure data) at various points every year or so. He can also measure amperage almost all the time at various points in the box (equivalent of well production data). He can also cut into the box occasionally and look around with a very bad flashlight so he can't see very far beyond the hole (equivalent of well logs and core). He gets to do this for x number of years . . . . and over time, he gets to figure out what's in the box, and predict how it's going to perform over time if various knobs are turned (or not).

BTW, you mentioned chess. Did you ever meet or interact with or hear of Mark Diesen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Diesen

I was a friend/co-worker of Mark for several years . . . he was an amazing reservoir engineer, and obviously a VERY talented chess player (read the bio). And also just a super-nice guy. I sure miss him.
Never heard of Mark , but he likely never heard of me . Very impressive .
I grew up in the Bobby Fisher era . Apparently Bobby Fisher was a bit antisocial .
Good analogy about your work .
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  #203  
Old 02-18-2015, 08:47 PM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHS View Post
College education, though not always needed, is certainly not a negative. When I do talk to recent college age family members and friends I find it hard to believe they went thru four years of schooling. Years ago they taught you how to think, now they tell you what to think. Should be interesting world in a few years.

That seems like emotive or silly anecdotal stuff - shouting get off my lawn as many say. We have close to 800 employees and are hiring more college graduates than ever even though it's more expensive. It's because we get the thinking, training and discipline needed to stay competitive.

Sad for some who didn't do or finish college because they are going sideways, or gone but the company's really improving in some important areas where more educated people are in the mix. Putting effective thinking where there was none is doing it. The new generation of educated people is a big deal that's helping a nearly 100 year old regional company compete with the giants.
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  #204  
Old 02-18-2015, 08:52 PM
ewalling ewalling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHS View Post
Years ago they taught you how to think, now they tell you what to think.
What, exactly, are "they" teaching us to think?

On what grounds do you base this claim?
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  #205  
Old 02-18-2015, 08:56 PM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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College degrees, at their best teach

a. thinking and critical analysis
b. a view of the world that is broader than they everyday
c. preservation of cultural history and appreciation of arts and science
d. communication skills
e. time management skills
f. collaborative and team building skills

As far as employment hard data goes, people with a degree earn in the top 25% of society. Those with a masters earn in the top 15%, those with a Ph.D. or other professional degree of this nature are in the top 10%. No doubt about it, a college degree will provide a better income.

There are negatives, but they are few and far between.

As for colleges losing their integrity, some of that occurs, no doubt. My concern is colleges preparing people for employment rather than focusing on how to think and learning about the world. Our civilization advanced only through education, without education we regress to barbarians.

A degree is not the only path in one's career. There are skilled trades, business starts, careers in the arts, and many other options. But I have not met a single person who was made worse by higher education, but have met many who dead end in their career due to a lack of it.
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  #206  
Old 02-18-2015, 09:51 PM
robj144 robj144 is offline
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Originally Posted by SongwriterFan View Post
.....

Anyway, I thought the DVD lectures were great and would SURELY explain it in a way he would easily understand. Apparently not. I just don't get how an engineer can't get that if x(t) is position, the x'(t) is speed and x''(t) is acceleration.

....
x'(t) is velocity, not speed. |x'(t)| is speed. Sorry, couldn't let that go.
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  #207  
Old 02-18-2015, 11:49 PM
teleamp teleamp is offline
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I took some refrigeration courses at a technical college a few years ago and was deeply disturbed by what I witnessed. At least a few of the teachers stood their ground and failed those who choose to sleep during class. You would be amazed at the auto accessories one can get with financial aid...
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  #208  
Old 02-18-2015, 11:55 PM
SongwriterFan SongwriterFan is offline
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Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
x'(t) is velocity, not speed. |x'(t)| is speed. Sorry, couldn't let that go.
Picky, picky, picky.
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  #209  
Old 02-19-2015, 06:14 AM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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Originally Posted by SongwriterFan View Post
Picky, picky, picky.
So , which do you use ?
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  #210  
Old 02-19-2015, 06:17 AM
SongwriterFan SongwriterFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterhound View Post
So , which do you use ?
I'm not so picky on the issue. I have no problem saying something has a SPEED of negative 10 miles per hour.

Or, if I'm driving, saying I have a speed of 70 mph going northeast.

Physicists are picky and want me to say that's a velocity. Of course, they often forget that at times I'm also going slightly uphill or downhill, so even THAT isn't my REAL velocity.
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