delicate situation

[Chicago Sandy]

My son's ex-girlfriend has been living with us off and on since the two of them were in high school (I was opposed to that from the start). She'd left numerous times--after she & Gordy broke up because she was cheating on him while still living here, to move in with her mom and emotionally abusive stepdad, or with her slightly batty psychologist grandma (who became her legal guardian and pretty much raised her before her mom sobered up--her dad drank himself to death), or with her next boyfriend who was physically abusive and controlling. My husband allowed her to come back each time because when Gordy was at the depths of his depression in his mid-teens, her devotion to him essentially kept him from killing himself--and Bob felt we owed her a huge debt for that.

We've repaid her many times over--and she has taken advantage of both Gordy and us. She moved in with friends, who eventually evicted her because they were tired of rescuing her. Her mom and stepdad lack the room to take her in (there's only room for them and her sister, they live out in the far suburbs not near commuter rail, and she does not know how to drive--thank goodness, since at least she won't drive drunk). She has drunk herself out of several trade school programs and about every job she's tried to hold. It's been several years since Gordy had anything other than platonic feelings for her--if he cares what happens to her it is because he is a very caring person and does not want to see her meet the same fate as her dad.

She is an alcoholic--as is her mom (recovering) and her late dad. If "malignant" alcoholism can be said to be hereditary, she inherited her dad's genes. There is definitely more than a little bit of fetal alcohol syndrome there--evident from both her physical features and apparent inability to realize the consequences of her actions. Her mom was able, after meeting her now third husband, to stop drinking on her own, sans rehab or 12-step programs. She therefore believes her daughter should be able to do the same and is unwilling to pay for any treatment whatsoever. Grandma is willing to pay for a short-term rehab involving 4-7 days of inpatient detox and then release with daily AA meetings. Shortly before Christmas, she entered that program, came back to us all aglow and attended every meeting in the area, usually twice a day and staying in contact with her supervisor. She then took a job in a restaurant (!!!), where after her first week the boss insisted she have a drink with the staff to celebrate. She declined, but he shoved a drink in her hand and you can guess the rest.

We've spent the past week grappling with this. Her friends who originally took her in before will not take her back. Her mom & stepdad won't either. She told us her grandma wanted to take her back; she promised to go back to her grandma and into detox again--but when she & Gordy got to grandma's condo, grandma told them she had not told her she could come back and refused to take her in. (Grandma has some unconventional psychological theories and even wrote about raising her in some papers in furtherance of her career--so we're not sure that's a healthy environment for her either, but they're family to each other and it seems the least toxic). We've tried to watch her around the clock, but she's been sneaking out to buy beer and hitting our own supply. Because we do have wine and spirits on hand, and Bob brings home his own beer, our home is NOT the ideal place for her (we all agree on that). But she is not our daughter and I am not about to get rid of our wine cellar--which would not prevent her from going out to buy beer anyway. I don't want her staying with us because she sneaks cigarettes and (besides her stinking up the guest room with smoke) I am afraid she will drunkenly fall asleep while smoking and burn the place down. (My housekeeper is also understandably skittish about that, since her crack-smoking neighbors burned down both their and her house in the process). She has even stolen money from Gordy's wallet and even "borrowed" his ATM card (which underlying account is tied to ours) to buy beer.

The only friend willing to take her in who does not himself drink is a guy with a drug problem. Tonight she came downstairs with her coat and backpack and mumbled something about going outside to look for her cell phone. We dialed her number and her backpack began to ring. So she then announced she was going over to said druggie friend to dry out. We tried to get her to go back to sleep, while we took turns watching her, till we could call her grandma tomorrow morning and arrange to get her back into detox. She pulled away from us and tried to get out the back door--and closed it on Gordy's hand so he could not prevent her from leaving. Needless to say, she was very drunk.

It is icy outside and her friend lives a mile away. We were beside ourselves with worry, knowing she could fall and hit her head or worse--but something inside me hoped she would finally get arrested or taken to the hospital, hit bottom and realize she needed REAL help--like a 4-week (or longer) residential rehab program and counseling (which we hope to be able to convince her grandma to underwrite). She just called to say she made it to her friend's house and would call her grandma in the morning. We are skeptical, to say the least.

Bob is willing to finance her rehab if she's willing--as I said, he feels she's like a daughter to us (he regrets we were unable to give Gordy a sibling), and harbors hope of achieving a rescue (in med school he had considered becoming a psychiatrist but was talked out of it by wary advisors who feared he might suffer vicariously for those patients he couldn't "save"). My feeling is that it is not our place to spend possibly six figures on someone who is not family and who has betrayed us many times; she is an adult and needs to make her own decisions, even bad ones. There's no guarantee rehab would "take," and I am afraid if we take that step we will be obligated to her for the rest of her life. (The Chinese say if you save someone's life you are forever responsible for their own well-being). Love, even tough love, is not enough--there comes a point when we cannot run her life for her.

Am I right to want to give up on her? Because she's a fetal-alcohol-syndrome kid I am not sure she is even capable of recovery, but she is not our responsibility.

[Scholar]

Hey, Sandy. PM sent.

[RP]

Your responsibility for this woman ended a long time ago, and I really feel that your best attempts to buoy her up are actually prolonging the inevitable. I don't mean to be glib, but this would make an excellent Dr. Phil episode.

[rhancox]

You've done a lot for her over the years. It's time to cut her loose.

I had to do the same thing with my sister. She spent years living off of our retired parents. After my dad passed away, I moved her, our semi-invalid mom (strokes) and 90-yr-old grandma out here from CA because I couldn't trust her to run a household unsupervised. She got free room and board and all she had to do was cook, clean and care for our mom and grandma. Then our grandma passed away and everything went downhill from there. It was already an unsatisfactory situation but it got much worse.

I finally decided to move my mom into an assisted living facility and told my sister it was time she was on her own. With my mom's money, my sister got to live free for a month and a half while she just sat on her butt and didn't look for work or anything. I finally kicked her out and she went to a homeless shelter. After 30 days of not doing anything for herself, she had to leave.

She decided to move back to CA but her own, grown-up, daughter wouldn't even take her. She managed to get a cousin of ours to take her in so with over $1500 more of my mom's money, we got her a U-Haul and I helped her pack up her stuff. When she got to our cousin's place, she parked the truck in a no parking zone and got it towed. Wired more of my mom's money to get the truck out of impound. The cousin decided it was going to work so she moved back to Fresno, CA where another cousin decided to take her in.

The point is, I was questioning myself whether it was the right thing to do to push my sister out on her own. My mom's personal and financial health were at stake and it was just getting worse. I'm not a religious person but I consulted an acquaintance, who was a minister and was renting an office from my boss, and I told him the whole story and he agreed it was time for her to be on her own. It was not an easy decision to make, even though all the reasons were valid.

So, I feel for you. Mine and yours are/were not similar in many ways, but they shared the same bottom line of having to make a tough decision about somebody you care for.

My sister managed to land a job as a live in caregiver for a few yrs and then when our cousin, in Fresno, came down with Alzheimer's, she moved back in with him to take care of him and that's where she's been since. She's far from being "normal", but she's also not a burden to anyone anymore.

[Acousticado]

Sandy, you, Bob and Gordy are good people for putting up with this girl for so long, at great cost to you all on many levels. Your responsibility is looong over. This reads like an episode of the A&E TV series, "Intervention". In that show, proper interventions are always a minimum of 3 months and the addict is on a path to death, and this girl appears to be. At least she doesn't have any kids (yet). I'm no doctor, but given the fetal alcohol syndrome complexity, it's obvious that any short-term intervention will not work. As I said, although your responsibility is over, you obviously still want to try something, so here's an idea.

It maybe a long-shot, but maybe you should propose this girl's problem to the A&E Intervention show producers. Her treatment would be paid-for. It would certainly take time, but her problem is not going to go away otherwise. Not everybody would want to be involved in participating in such a public face to a very difficult problem, but as a songwriter, performer and lawyer, you definitely have a combination of skills/gifts to make a compelling argument and help follow-through. Getting A&E to accept seems kind of like trying to get a song published/recorded. You know how to do that. I'm sure that most folks who submit stories/problems don't even have that insight. Even without all your skills, that's what I'd do, or at least try.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by Chicago Sandy

<<snip>>

...she is an adult and needs to make her own decisions, even bad ones.

<<snip>>

It's my opinion that until a person with this kind of problem fully suffers the repercussions of their actions, they will continue to spiral downwards, and take those around them with them....and even then, it can never be your responsibility to orchestrate her life.

Deal with organizing an intervention, read her the riot-act, and let the chips fall where they may.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

It's my opinion that until a person with this kind of problem fully suffers the repercussions of their actions, they will continue to spiral downwards, and take those around them with them.

Deal with organizing an intervention, read her the riot-act, and let the chips fall where they may.

I would agree in many circumstances, but I think the fetal alcohol syndrome component of this particular problem adds a level of complexity that requires much more than a basic intervention that includes reading her the riot act. The only intervention likely to have a chance to work is a top professional one which is VERY expensive unless one can find a way to somehow have it funded.

[Bingoccc]

Originally Posted by larry pattis

it's my opinion that until a person with this kind of problem fully suffers the repercussions of their actions, they will continue to spiral downwards, and take those around them with them....and even then, it can never be your responsibility to orchestrate her life.

Deal with organizing an intervention, read her the riot-act, and let the chips fall where they may.

+1 .......................

[tdrake]

I'm gonna offer up that any advice we give you will be about as good as the unqualified legal advice we non-attorneys gave Knuckle, concerning his legal problems.

In other words, you and your husband, though obviously unbelievably generous, beautiful and intelligent people willing to sacrifice so much for this woman...are in way over your heads and there's nothing you can do, or, worse, you may wind up doing as much harm as good: turn the situation over to professionals.

If it weren't for the geographical particulars I'd say I know this woman, and she's an ex student of mine who showed up on my office doorstep a few years ago. While I distracted (and fed) her, my wife called the two heads of our two regional universities counselling programs and asked what to do. Both said unequivocally not to let her into our home and that all we could do was encourage her into a halfway house/counselling program.

Doing otherwise would likely not only be futile but deepen both her problems and our own. We were simply in way over our heads.

As are you.

PS: it was nice to open up a thread a thread this morning about someone trying to help another person, rather than yet another driven by hatred, anger and fear. It's good to remember there are people like you out there, Sandy.

[bluesbassdad]

Sandy,

As much as I admire your and your husband's desire to help this unfortunate person, it sounds to me like you're out of your depth.

Would you consider joining one of the organizations (I don't know a name off-hand) that support relatives of individuals with addictive personalities?

I believe you need support both in regard to the emotions involved and in choosing a course of action that may help this person without damaging your own lives.

But I could be wrong. I've never dealt with anything like this.

I wish you well, however you choose to proceed.

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by tdrake

I'm gonna offer up that any advice we give you will be about as good as the unqualified legal advice we non-attorneys gave Knuckle, concerning his legal problems.

I agree. Any advice given here would be at best superficial and at worst dangerous. We don't know the people involved or have sufficient understanding of the situation. And even if we did, we'd talk about what we would do in this situation, and 'we' is not 'you'.

[COWriter]

First, you're a smart lady who knows its time to make a change. Nothing I say will come as any surprise to you, but I'll provide my 2 cents anyway.

Sometimes, our homes only serve to support the addict continue their addiction. When that happens, its time to change how we support the addict. Providing support only works when the addict is truly ready to receive it as part of their recovery. Slipping or falling "off the wagon" is a part of that process. Does she value her sobriety more than the next drink? Only she knows the answer.

I like your idea to enlist grandma to underwrite a residential treatment program. If all agree, it could be the answer you (and Bob) are hoping for...a sustained journey on the road to recovery. You all have my prayers.

[Tuffythepug]

without going into details I'll just say that in my own experience, it's best to cut off the ties at this point. Be available to her if and when she has faced and resolved her dependency issues but not until. I'm not a psychologist, therapist or counselor but I've lived your story and feel qualified to offer an opinion. And I wish you and your spouse and your son all the luck in the world in extricating yourselves from this quagmire. On the bright side, it can get better.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by ewalling

I agree. Any advice given here would be at best superficial and at worst dangerous. We don't know the people involved or have sufficient understanding of the situation. And even if we did, we'd talk about what we would do in this situation, and 'we' is not 'you'.

This, of course, true.

However, the story as presented does allow some conclusions to be drawn, even if generalities don't resolve every detail.

This woman needs help, but no one can live her life for her. There are a lot of damaged people walking around, suffering greatly with circumstances that are difficult (at best) to resolve.

Until and unless she has proven to be a danger to herself and/or others, there is nothing that truly can be done to help her...and even then, she will have to find the best way to help herself, within the kindnesses that she has been shown (or that she can muster internally). Even if she did become a danger, there is often little or nothing that authorities would do.

An adult with fetal-alcohol syndrome is still an adult, and still has to find his/her own way in this world. As I said, no one can orchestrate or live her life for her.

As M. Scott Peck once wrote (in The Road Less Traveled), "Life is difficult."

[TaoMaas]

I have an alcoholic friend whose parents tried some "tough love" with him several years ago. They did it on their own and it seems to me that the way they went about it actually worked against what they were trying to accomplish. They basically just came in one day (after pleading with him for years), packed his stuff, and told him to "get out". Then they got restraining orders to prevent him from even contacting them. That seems okay, but what has happened is my friend now blames his parents for him being homeless. I think they should have offered to help him get sober, but make HIM choose whether to keep drinking or get help. That way, he has only himself to blame for making the wrong choice. By not being given a choice of where things went after his folks said, "no mas", he's able to live in denial that his actions are to blame for his circumstances in life...it's still someone else's fault. By the way, I keep waiting for him to bottom out, but he never has. It's a sad situation because there are all sorts of people around him who would be willing to lend him a hand if he were to sincerely try to get his life straightened out. It's that "sincere" part that's the catch. Oh...he hates living in a storage unit! He'll tell you that right up front. He just doesn't hate it enough to stop drinking, attend AA meetings, get a job, etc...