Good cables?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by tochiro

I've just found the link: http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazin..._Part_One.aspx

I've read quite a lot about cables now and something surprises me: I could not find an audio or video comparison between cables. Even on manufacturers' sites I could not hear a guitar sound through a good cable compared to the same guitar sound through a cheap cable... Such a comparison should be easy to make.

That leads me to believe that all cables are equal in reality as far as guitar sound is concerned.

Hi Tochiro,

Thanks for pointing the way to this article!

Whirlwind Audio's, Al Keltz, who explains Whirlwind's product philosophy in the article, was a friend of mine in high school, here in Rochester, New York. We graduated the same year, 1968, and Al went on to perform in local bands. He's a very intelligent and knowledgeable person and credence should be given to what he mentions about cables in the Premier Guitar article.

Regards,

SpruceTop

[690MBCOMMANDO]

Originally Posted by tochiro

That leads me to believe that all cables are equal in reality as far as guitar sound is concerned.

I've owned a number of cables over the years and there is a huge difference (at least to my ears). I used Monster Cables for a long time and then came across the Zaolla Artist Series and found them to be like taking cotton out of my ears - higher and richer highs, fuller more satisfying bass, strong more articulate mids. They are expensive though. But now I found them a main staple to any situation.

[FLDavid]

My live rig (acoustic-electric, electric 12-string, synth) uses all Mogami cables

[690MBCOMMANDO]

Originally Posted by FLDavid

My live rig (acoustic-electric, electric 12-string, synth) uses all Mogami cables

Hey David - I used Mogamis as well and they are nice. Have you tried the Zaollas as well? (I don't work for Zaolla but found them a nice tonal upgrade)

[FLDavid]

Originally Posted by 690MBCOMMANDO

Hey David - I used Mogamis as well and they are nice. Have you tried the Zaollas as well? (I don't work for Zaolla but found them a nice tonal upgrade)

I have not heard the Zaollas -- I'll check 'em out
Thanks!

[royd]

good quality vs. boutique may or may not give you a different sound but it is clear that it is a case of diminishing returns. You can spend hundreds of dollars on a cable or 60 and there may be a subtle difference. And it may or may not be the difference you want to hear. (Hendrix preferred cheap coil cables).

At the same time high quality vs. cheap is sure to be something that makes a difference... when the cheap cable craps out in the most inopportune of times.

I buy my cables from Lava. I get mid level cables and am thrilled with them. Great service and well made, sturdy parts.

A number of folk have mentioned George L's. I'll be the dissenting voice. I hate them. I don't like the way they wrap and I have had them give up the ghost multiple times. The screw on plugs seem to be a silly idea to me. I think I still have one in my pedal board that I replaced the plugs with solder on plugs.

[sdelsolray]

I upgraded the power cable to my lava lamp. Night and day.

[rmyAddison]

Folks it's all smoke and mirrors.

Electrons don't know the difference between uber braided unobtanium cables and just decent well made ones.

Once you get past: sufficient gauge, proper shielding, quality connectors the rest is "fluff".

I have participated in a number of high end home theater blind tests of connectors and speaker cables, the results are ALWAYS the same, the $250/ft. speaker cables sound no better than "decent" cables.

Same with guitar cables, once you get past decent you're just paying for a name. The only difference may be resitance in some cases which will slightly affect volume, and we always perceive louder as better, 2db is audible.

Do a blind A/B with someone playing a guitar in another room with different cables, you will be guessing, not "knowing", been there done that.

The last time we had a thread like this an electrical engineer who does high end sound for major venues chimed in how he doesn't skimp on anything with his sound systems except cables, which he mostly makes his own. Point being again, you need decent and no more.

Well made high quality, yes! $100 guitar cables, $100/ft. speaker wire....not!

[tls82]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

Folks it's all smoke and mirrors.

Electrons don't know the difference between uber braided unobtanium cables and just decent well made ones.

Once you get past: sufficient gauge, proper shielding, quality connectors the rest is "fluff".

I have participated in a number of high end home theater blind tests of connectors and speaker cables, the results are ALWAYS the same, the $250/ft. speaker cables sound no better than "decent" cables.

Same with guitar cables, once you get past decent you're just paying for a name. The only difference may be resitance in some cases which will slightly affect volume, and we always perceive louder as better, 2db is audible.

Do a blind A/B with someone playing a guitar in another room with different cables, you will be guessing, not "knowing", been there done that.

The last time we had a thread like this an electrical engineer who does high end sound for major venues chimed in how he doesn't skimp on anything with his sound systems except cables, which he mostly makes his own. Point being again, you need decent and no more.

Well made high quality, yes! $100 guitar cables, $100/ft. speaker wire....not!

Very interesting. What do you recommend ? (my setup would be a Taylor acoustic w/ES pickup to a preamp/di , then from there direct to a PA)

[SpruceTop]

You can't go wrong with Mogami Gold cables! They're reasonably priced and can be replaced for life by walking into any Guitar Center or other Mogami dealer, giving them your defective cable and getting a new one for free.

Regards,

SpruceTop

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

Folks it's all smoke and mirrors.

Electrons don't know the difference between uber braided unobtanium cables and just decent well made ones.

Once you get past: sufficient gauge, proper shielding, quality connectors the rest is "fluff".

I have participated in a number of high end home theater blind tests of connectors and speaker cables, the results are ALWAYS the same, the $250/ft. speaker cables sound no better than "decent" cables.

Same with guitar cables, once you get past decent you're just paying for a name. The only difference may be resitance in some cases which will slightly affect volume, and we always perceive louder as better, 2db is audible.

Do a blind A/B with someone playing a guitar in another room with different cables, you will be guessing, not "knowing", been there done that.

The last time we had a thread like this an electrical engineer who does high end sound for major venues chimed in how he doesn't skimp on anything with his sound systems except cables, which he mostly makes his own. Point being again, you need decent and no more.

Well made high quality, yes! $100 guitar cables, $100/ft. speaker wire....not!

I agree.

I've sat in my bay while some Project Coordinator demanded more high-end in a mix. I've twirled a bypassed eq control until they said "that's it, it much crisper now"

It's amazing what trickery audio can play on our hearts and minds and as an extension to that thought it's amazing what trickery high end/expensive cable making companies can play on our hearts, minds and wallets.

A decent quality cable yes....beyond that it's an act of a Prestige.

[tls82]

I could be an idiot ... but, here goes.

So, I came a cross a Planet Waves 1/4 to 1/4 cable that I don't remember having. Is there a way to tell if it is mono or stereo (trs to trs) ?

Easy on the "hey, man, you're goofy!" comments

[riorider]

A sincere question is never "goofy"...

Here's a good explanation and diagrams from the Taylor website:

http://www.taylorguitars.com/global/...sionSystem.pdf

Essentially, if the connector has two contact points (tip & sleeve) it's mono (or unbalanced). If the connector has three contact points (tip, ring, & sleeve) it's stereo, or balanced.

Cheers,

Phil

[songman]

Most of my cables are MOGAMI 2524. I just looked at Zoalla cables and they are 3 times more expensive!!! WhY???

[alohachris]

Aloha Mr. Addison,

Let's not take this cable discussion down quite yet Rich, OK? I know. I know. I could feel your restraint earlier in this post about the scientific facts. And I appreciate it.

Science does back your opinion about hearing sonic differences among difference cables.

However, some of us really do hear subtle differences. And it's not only in our heads or wishful thinking supporting our purchases.

I respectfully agree to disagree with you on this, my friend, OK?

I've been A/B'ing cables for 45 years on my home rigs using the same everything including songs. The results have often surprised me. Mostly, the differences - TO MY EARS - are subtle. You can really hear them on vocal mics.

However, there can be significant differences among cables occasionally.

For me, the one cable that provided the most significant qualitative, sonic difference for tone and clarity in all my years of comparing cables is a 5' Zaolla cable that I used to connect my stereo dual systems from guitar to my DI/splitter box.

I don't use that anymore because I upgraded to the SPS-1 preamp whihc uses a Canare/Neutrik cable to connect its module from guitar to rack unit.

Hey, that rarely unused Zaolla just sits around in a case now. If anyone is interested, we could work out a low price (I think I paid $75 a couple years ago). Sale or no sale, that still is the best cable I've ever heard.

alohachris