Overcoming Luthierphobia

Jimi_Taylor · #1 05-02-2009, 12:06 AM

So I really want to take my guitar(s) into a professional luthier to get the set up (as many people on this forum suggest). I think it would be great since so many people seem to feel that the playability of their instrument improved dramatically after having a professional setup done. It's not uncommon to see people say something along the lines of "a whole new instrument" etc.

I'm just afraid of one thing: I have no idea what to ask them to do.

How do I know if the relief is to my liking? Action at the 12th? Neck needs an adjustment? Any other adjustments with the saddle/nut? The list goes on and on. I'm a little embarrassed to go in and not know what to tell them...

Please...any help/suggestions would be most appreciated.

Oh! One more thing: how should I go about searching for a reputable luthier who I can trust and look forward to building a long-term relationship with? I want to make sure I'm going to someone who is patient and willing to teach me all they know so that I can keep going back to them and know we'll be on the same page.

Thanks!

mmmaak · #2 05-02-2009, 12:14 AM

I think the correct word you're looking for is "guitar tech". While luthiers can certainly set up guitars (other than their own), it is the techs who do this on a more regular basis

Rod True · #3 05-02-2009, 12:19 AM

First off, let us know where you're located. I'm sure there will be other's here in your area to let you know of reputable luthiers.

A good luthier will ask you questions to help you figure out what type of set up you like. What type of playing do you do? Flat picking, finger style, a combination of the two? How heavy do you strum? What gauge of string do you normally use (Med, Lights, etc...)? All of these questions will be able to tell the luthier what type of set up you would most likely like/enjoy.

How does your guitar play now? Do the stings feel overly high to you when you're playing in the upper frets? Is there any buzzing when strumming (moderate strumming, not bashing on it)? Does it play in tune from one chord to the next?

Setting up a guitar is two fold. First it's about making sure the intonation is correct, and second (a very very close second) is making it playable (action not to high or to low) for the style of playing the player enjoys.

sfden1 · #4 05-02-2009, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmmaak

I think the correct word you're looking for is "guitar tech". While luthiers can certainly set up guitars (other than their own), it is the techs who do this on a more regular basis

I'm with mmmaak on this. A luthier is someone who builds stringed (not necessarily guitars, could be violins, or Cellos, or...) instruments. There are luthiers who will set up your guitar for you as a part of what they do. For instance, John Mello in Berkeley will do that (by appointment only), or will repair your guitar, but he is first and foremost a builder.

There are also luthiers, fully capable of building you a guitar or other stringed instrument, who have, for whatever reason, decided that they prefer the repair side of the business. Dennis Berck in Eugene is a good example of that. But, for the most part, what most of us are looking for is a good guitar tech who can diagnose what's going on with your guitar and adjust it to it's optimal playing level.

Frank Ford, one of the best repair guys in the business, insists that he is not a luthier, but a guy who repairs guitars. If you really want to know what to ask a repair guy, I suggest you start by educating your self about how a guitar should be set up, and there's no better place to start than Frank Ford's site, www.frets.com.

Also, check out Bryan Kimsey's site, http://www.bryankimsey.com/. Look under the lutherie section at setups and neck relief. Very informative.

Last, there's a guy who posts here occcasionally, Freeman Keller, who is a regular at the Harmony Central Acoustic guitar forum who has put together what I think is a brilliant how-to for the average guy on what to look for, what's going on, and what you can do yourself. I wish Freeman would see fit to post it here, but he hasn't, so here's a link: http://www.thekrashsite.com/hcag/

Look under the Tech Stuff link at "Is My Guitar Sick?", and "How Do I Fix My Sick Guitar?" My apologies to Freeman if he reads this, but really, this is so well done I think everyone should be aware of it. And, while your there, spend a bit of time and check out some of the music people have posted. There 's some wonderful stuff.

All of which is to say, the best way, imo, to know what to ask your local repair guy, is to school yourself a bit on what's going on with your guitar. As to finding someone local who is good? Ask everyone you meet who plays a guitar who they like and gather names, the more the better. Hopefully, out of that one or two will show up more than anyone else. Start there.

Good luck, hope that helps.

Dennis

Wade Hampton · #5 05-02-2009, 02:08 AM

Rod's correct. A good luthier/repair tech will talk to you, listen to you play, ask you the right questions and get a sense of what you need.

A pompous twit who doesn't really know what he's doing, however, will treat you like a necessary annoyance and then shoo you out the door as quickly as he can.

Try to get a sense of which category the ones you talk with ARE before committing to leaving your guitar with them.

One thing that's quite helpful is to take your instrument to the nearest music store that's licensed as a Martin Authorized Warranty Repair center.

There are a couple of levels of accreditation that Martin gives out: there's a basic "install under saddle pickups and do real EASY stuff" level, and there's the guys who can do neck resets, fret work, anything up to and maybe including replacing a top (though Martin would almost certainly require that a top replacement be done at the factory.)

Even if you don't own a Martin, the advantage of going to one of their authorized warranty repair centers is that Martin only grudgingly and very carefully gives out that status. It has to be EARNED, and even stores that are Martin dealerships don't automatically get it.

By the way, the word "luthier" is one that gets used a bit loosely. When I first heard it in 1973, it referred only to instrument builders who could make an instrument start to finish, including the process of resawing planks of wood into guitar sets.

Strictly. It had no other meaning.

Nowadays it gets used both for the finest handbuilders and for strip mall music repairmen who couldn't hand build a guitar start to finish if you put a gun to their heads.

So you'll run into varying degrees of usage there. Many of us on these guitar forums use it in the strictest sense (which is my preference,) but the reality is that the term has come to have a wider meaning for many.

Hope that makes sense.

Wade Hampton Miller

Folkstrum · #6 05-02-2009, 06:13 AM

Don't be luthier-phobic!!

In our small city, our ONLY luthier (Jim Holler- http://trinityguitars.com ) is also likely the BEST guitar-tech in the area. I haven't asked anyone else to work on my guitars. I went to Jim because he not only builds 'em (Classicals), but sells as an authorized dealer for Martin, Larrivee, Gallagher, National Reso, Baden and RK's. So, he sets up any and all guitars for his customers. Being I didn't want to ship my Omega MJ back to Kevin Gallagher (Saylorsburg PA) for simple relief adjustments, or having the Baggs I-Beam put in, I feel lucky to know Jim is around. So I asked Kevin's blessing to have Jim work on the Omega, and got it!

Now, most all luthiers I've ever heard about seem to be salt of the earth folks. Jim is no exception. I've been playing over 40 years, and know enough about guitars to be dangerous. That's about it. I can tell if my action if morphing, or if I'm getting any buzz, or intonation seems off, or if frets need dressing (or replacement), etc.

Basically, I took my 855 into Jim a coupla weeks ago, and left it--he is really swamped getting all the "Larrivee Forum Guitars" set up and shipped. I asked him to do some checking on neck relief, and throw on a new set of 80/20's (light gauge--I do not like the "extra lights" on the 12). As things turned out, the relief was overly "bowed" toward the bridge, some of the tuning machines were loose! (that kinda surprised me, as it stays in tune like it was welded

) and he said he put in a bit more time on her than either of us thought. But it was well-worth it. Yes, a really good Tech I would trust, but having Jim so near-by, and knowing he KNOWS the craft of building and working on guitars (he does repairs also)--well, it's just worth it.

If you have either a good tech, or luthier near by, I think it's well-worth the investment of time and $$$. He'll ask you your prefs on things, so don't think you have to go in with a bunch of techno-babble. Most luthiers are natural teachers, and want to share their expertise. You'll likely come away knowing some stuff you didn't know before.

D.Kwasnycia · #7 05-02-2009, 06:22 AM

I do both, a luthier/repair tech and at times if the flow of repairs were constant in my area, I would just do that with the od build. I have people all the time coming to me for there repairs and shops in my area calling me to go in and look at what they have to be repaired. If you were to come to me and ask for me to look the instrument over and see what it needs to be set up, I would ask you the same questions that R.True has said. Im sure that the guy's and gals here can recommend a good place, we just need to know where you are located.

ewalling · #8 05-02-2009, 07:06 AM

For me there's always something slightly troubling about leaving one of my guitars with a tech; I have mild irrational fears about people in the store all having a go on it, or the tech putting an unsightly scratch or two on it. I view the experience a bit like going to the dentist - it's not enjoyable but you usually feel better once it's done.

stuartb · #9 05-02-2009, 07:15 AM

Good advice,

I'd rather go to a builder for everything, but locally, have not got someone I'm comfortable approaching.

I had to take a guitar in recently, and I was very direct with my questioning of their experience and expertise. If they were not the best in the area, then who was. How many years experience. Feedback from clients. Don't be afraid to be direct.

Stuart

kerouackid · #10 05-02-2009, 08:36 AM

I agree with being direct. I'm mainly a repair tech, although I have built a few. I would be leery of ANY tech that can't build a guitar from scratch though, and I don't mean building strats or teles. I try to ask as many questions from my customers as I can, I don't think the player can tell me too much about their playing style. That helps me get the instrument set up for their playing style, since there's no such thing as the perfect setup for everyone. I usually have the customer buy the set of strings that they want the guitar set up for. Don't worry about having the right terminology for every adjustment on the guitar, I want to know if you're a hard strummer or if you play fingerstyle, not if you want .005 in. of neck relief at the 7th fret. One thing I have a hard time with is getting people to tell me about is any work that they've had done or tried to do themselves. I can't tell you how many times I've had a guitar in the shop with a stripped out trussrod nut from people trying to adjust it themselves with the wrong tool, or saddles and nuts glued in with Gorilla glue. If you tell me these things right at the beginning, your repair bill and my frustration will stay low. And if I don't think I can do the repair, I will send you to someone who can. A good repair person is the person who says "I don't think I can, but I know someone who can." I doesn't mean that I'm a bad repairman, it means that I know someone who can do the repair better than I can.

Jimi_Taylor · #11 05-02-2009, 08:53 AM

Thanks everyone.

First, apologies over my word choice concerning the word "luthier." I recognize the difference between someone who builds and someone who only repairs, it's just that I've heard (and picked up on the idea) that it is best to take one's guitar to a luthier for repairs (no offense to those who are strictly guitar techs).

As for everything else? Great recommendations. I'm feeling more at ease with every response.

Oh, and I live in the great music city of Seattle, so there's got to be some reliable "guitar-fixing people" (trying to be PC here

) around this city, right???

kerouackid · #12 05-02-2009, 09:09 AM

Oh boy, my old stomping grounds! That's where I apprenticed. I would suggest Roger at Guitarville, and the folks at Emerald City Guitars.

Brent Hutto · #13 05-02-2009, 09:19 AM

Jimi,

If you're new to this stuff, one thing to remember is that even if you don't know enough to request a setup that turns out to be perfect for you a good guitar tech will at least give you a guitar that's set up "properly".

I'd be perfectly happy to play a guitar whose 12th fret action is a couple 64ths too tall for me and with not enough neck relief if the action at the nut is playable, the frets level, the slots in the nut clean and everything straight and tight and properly working. In other words, absent the "perfect" setup for you playing there's still a long way between a "good setup" and a "bad setup". And many/most guitars come from the factory with varying degrees of a "bad setup".

hann · #14 05-02-2009, 10:06 AM

I WONDER WHICH PAYS BETTER..... heeee

ljguitar · #15 05-02-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimi_Taylor

...I have no idea what to ask them to do.

Hi Jimi...
Here is my list...

Make sure I include a printed out list of what I'm asking them to do (in the pick drawer with fresh strings)... & show it to them...
Discuss the cost and give them permission to go that far without calling me - anything additional I want a call...
Set the action...adjust relief & or saddle
Set the intonation at the octaves...
Check the nut (and touch up any sticky slots which I will point out to them)...
Dress the frets if they need it...including fret ends which may be sharp and sticking out the side of the fingerboard...
Inspect the guitar for internal integrity...check the bridge for lifting...
Change the strings...
Let me play it before I leave their area...in case anything needs further tweaking before I get home
Take the time to discuss with me face-to-face all that with me later & the condition the guitar was in versus how it is now (how much did they adjust what)...

I string my guitars fresh before I leave them to be setup knowing that it is better to intonate a guitar with fresh strings on it (I just put inexpensive, non-coated, whichever weight/formula I'm going to use later - 80/20 or phosphor bronze).

I know they are likely to have the strings on/off the guitar several time during the setup so I toss a new set of whatever strings I want on the guitar in the pick drawer and ask them to string it with those fresh when they are done...