Luthiers:Thinking About Changing Bridge

stringjunky · #1 01-24-2010, 06:56 PM

Hi Guys

I've come to the conclusion that the string spacing on my 000 is too narrow and I'm exploring my options. Is it a straightforward job in the hands of a competent luthier to replace the bridge/bridgeplate for a new one with increased hole spacing (+2mm total) or is it too a risky task really just for a modification? I would have the nut changed as well with increased slot spacing to the same amount.

The depth of body is 4 1/2" at its widest and 3 3/4" soundhole...is that enough room to work with.

Thanks

Tony

Brackett Instruments · #2 01-24-2010, 07:10 PM

It's not something that's usually done. There's holes in the top, as well as the bridge and bridgeplate, and the neck/fingerboard probably isn't wide enough.

Tim McKnight · #3 01-24-2010, 07:11 PM

Its possible... but there may be another option to consider if your bridge is ebony or rosewood and the holes are not slotted? StewMac sells a tool to cut and plug the bridgeplate. Then the bridge pin holes could be plugged and re-drilled with very little noticeable visual affect. This would be way more cost effective than replacing the bridge and bridge plate. Is your FB wide enough to compensate the change in string width?

Aaron Smith · #4 01-24-2010, 08:52 PM

Either way, that seems like a lot of surgery on a guitar. You may want to consider selling it and getting one with string spacing more to your liking?

stringjunky · #5 01-24-2010, 09:08 PM

Hi Tim and Woody

The holes are slotted unfortunately. The string spacing is 55mm at the saddle and 40mm at the nut which is 46mm wide. The width at the 12th fret is 55mm.

It did occur to me that the holes in the top might be an obstacle.

I might just bite the bullet and save up for another one if it's not practical. I didn't know what I really needed when I had it made. I really wanted this to be my only guitar...it's perfect but for that. I find myself using a pick when I really want use my fingers most of the time.

Matt Mustapick · #6 01-24-2010, 09:18 PM

First consider how much real estate there is on the fingerboard. Will there be enough margin left between the outer strings and the edge of the fingerboard? If so, then you can simply have a notched saddle made that will space the strings our wider. It's a perfectly practical solution that will have no detrimental effect on tone and has no permanent impact on the instrument. I do not mean that the saddle should have slots like at the nut. The saddle can be carefully carved so that there are stair-stepped ridges holding the strings in place. If it's done very carefully and correctly proper intonation can be kept intact. For me personally, this is the only solution I'd consider, and it's 100% effective.

But, the main issue is the fingerboard width. Collings doesn't usually leave much excess margin there.

stringjunky · #7 01-24-2010, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Mustapick

First consider how much real estate there is on the fingerboard. Will there be enough margin left between the outer strings and the edge of the fingerboard? If so, then you can simply have a notched saddle made that will space the strings our wider. It's a perfectly practical solution that will have no detrimental effect on tone and has no permanent impact on the instrument. I do not mean that the saddle should have slots like at the nut. The saddle can be carefully carved so that there are stair-stepped ridges holding the strings in place. If it's done very carefully and correctly proper intonation can be kept intact. For me personally, this is the only solution I'd consider, and it's 100% effective.

But, the main issue is the fingerboard width. Collings doesn't usually leave much excess margin there.

Hi Matt

Are there any pictures you could link me to of it.

My guitar isn't a Collings it was made by Tom Waghorn a UK luthier.

The space at the FB edge is quite generous and I could handle losing a mil either side,

Is a pinless bridge an option for me or is my guitar not right for that?

Thanks

Matt Mustapick · #8 01-24-2010, 11:28 PM

Gee I don't know where I got that Collings idea from...

No I don't have pictures. I did this once for a friend who wanted a real nice guitar's spacing widened that way. I'll PM you his email address and maybe he'll send you a picture. I just did this for a friend...I don't want to put myself out there as someone who's interested in doing it professionally...but hopefully you could find someone close to you who's up for it.

I wouldn't consider replacing the bridge at all. This option is every bit as effective, a whole lot easier, and not the least bit destructive.

John Arnold · #9 01-25-2010, 01:12 AM

The string slots can be filled and recut. I don't recommend it for a big change (for example, going from 2 1/8 to 2 5/16), but 1 mm on the outside strings is possible.
I have filled the pin holes and redrilled, but I find it difficult to control the hole location exactly.
Changing the bridge and bridgeplate is what I usually recommend. The holes in the top are not a problem....they can be plugged.

Quote:

is that enough room to work with.

It is for me, but I have skinny arms.

Dischord · #10 01-25-2010, 01:28 AM

Tony,

If I were you, I'd discuss it with Tom Waghorn. Since he built it for you in the first place, he might have his own ideas about the best course of action to remedy the situation.

Mark

gitnoob · #11 01-25-2010, 01:39 AM

I've been curious about something for a while. Why doesn't anybody make a bridge with adjustable string spacing?

Seems like you could fairly easily make a slotted bridge with oblong holes, each with two slots. One position for strumming, and another for fingerstyle.

Is this a crazy idea?

vicov · #12 01-25-2010, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dischord

Tony,

If I were you, I'd discuss it with Tom Waghorn. Since he built it for you in the first place, he might have his own ideas about the best course of action to remedy the situation.

Mark

I too would be reluctant to make any modifications without first addressing the possible consequences with Tom Waghorn. Here's a link to his web site; http://www.waghornguitars.com/acoustic.html

Vic

PWoolson · #13 01-25-2010, 06:09 AM

Before you do MAJOR surgery on the guitar, I'd highly recommend having the holes filled with tinted epoxy. Let it dry and then re drill the new holes. That way you can see if that's way you really want. (because you don't want to do the surgery twice) Then if you find you love the new spacing, look into a replacement.
Actually though, I've done this without even going through the replacement. The epoxy is just covering the outside holes by 1mm on one side. Chances are good that the ball of the bridge pin will cover it just fine.
If someone came to me requesting this type of repair, I'd recommend going with a fill/re drill first and even when satisfied with the results, I still might recommend just sticking with the fill/re drill as a final repair. There's a LOT of risk when pulling bridges and bridge plates.

stringjunky · #14 01-25-2010, 11:44 AM

Thanks for all the responses, It has been quite educative reading about the different approaches ...starting this thread was just a recce to see what the possibilities were and there are a few.

Matt: Thanks for giving me that guy's email...i might just look into that as it's not destructive.

Replacing the the bridge/plate is a pretty major op by the sounds of it so I'm not going to go down that road...reading articles elsewhere on these types of jobs they don't tell you the problems associated with them do they?...you just see before and after pictures and non of the cursing and swearing in between!

Gitnoob: My mind thinks like yours....I was thinking of a bridge that slid onto a rail and two screws to hold it in place! Or bolt on bridge anyone...replacing a bolt-on pinless bridge would be quite non destructive with a couple of nice push in plugs to cover the screw/bolt holes.

I wouldn't have gone ahead without consulting Tom Waghorn first...it would not have been practical for him to do it though because he lives too far away.

It looks like I might have succumb to GAS and save up for an out and out fingerpicker.

Thanks for the education guys.

Tony

daysailer · #15 01-25-2010, 02:17 PM

Here are some pictures of how I used ramping to slightly spread the string spacing on my Seagull Folk from 2 1/8"
to 2 1/4". No tone or buzzing problems. Balanced break angle and tone from string to string.
Also note the vintaged bone pins and saddle. Soaked them in Hot tea. Homemade nut matches these too.

Here is the nut I made to shift the strings for easier bass E string thumbover fretting, and less palm mutting the e.