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Old 01-31-2010, 07:03 PM
Explorer Explorer is offline
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Mr. Ed, why don't you use the Newtones on your T5 and Rainsong? Since you're straddling both worlds, I think your opinions carry some weight. I also find it interesting that you use Alchemy strings.

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Jean, I'm not sure I buy into the idea that an appropriate radius on the nut, fretboard and saddle means that there is interference between those aspects of the system and the relief. Further, if there is neck relief, it will affect all the strings equally, as the fretboard relief means the fretboard moves away from perfectly straight equally for all strings. Are you implying that the fretboard moves away at the edges more than the center? You seem to be saying the middle strings are closer to the fretboard, but your explanation was a bit muddled.

On my six-strings and on my baritone, the tension of the 3rd string (first wound string) and the fifth are about equal, with the fourth string being a bit higher in tension. I'd expect that the tension on the 4th string would be higher, tensioned given your explanation; that's not the case in practice when I've been looking at string tensions while trying to determine the perfect set.

I haven't been sticking with stock string sets, either. As my full-fifths instruments don't have any stock string sets available, I went through several iterations of single-string experimentation, finally finding a group of gauges which work well together in terms of playability and sound. The parabola of tension exists in that set as well. The difference in gauges between plain and wound strings, which you say is too extreme, is needed to keep the balance correct... at least in the instruments I've been working with.

In other words, I've not been just buying stock sets and thinking that it's the best tension. I wound up quite a bit on bulk single strings to be able to determine what worked best. My decision to retain a wound third string on the fifths instruments (a .018 PB wound) pays off in terms of sound and balance.

You prefer a completely straight neck, from what you've posted. My own instruments have a small amount of relief, and the action at the 12th fret is less than 2mm on the sixth (thickest) string. I could never have an action so low if the neck was completely straight; since I play up the neck quite a bit, a good set up requires having that touch of relief so the whole instrument's action can be brought down. I must admit that I'm curious as to your acoustic guitar's set up, and what the action is at the 12th fret.

It's funny that different people look for different set ups. My own baritone at 25.5" has strings gauges as large as your Eb tuning, but my own tuning is B baritone, a fourth below yours. You've got roughly 10 lbs. more per string than I've got. That's astonishing to me, considering that I've found that a more responsive guitar is more responsive still when the top has less pressure on it. The higher the string tension, the stiffer the top becomes and the worse the volume and tone, at least among all the instruments I have in my house. What kind of instrument are you playing, and again, what is the action at the 12th fret?

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To the original poster, this should be a good lesson in terms of knowing what assumptions different people have in terms of starting conditions.

To Kurt, I don't know for sure, but I suspect that if one is talking about just a few pounds of difference, a guitar is normally able to take slight adjustments from side to side. When one is talking about over 50 lbs as in the previous example, of course, that might change. *laugh* If a guitar is built to a precise set of tolerances, and is built so that it is just on the point of failure in order to really get the most vibration out of the strings... well, I don't know of any luthiers who build such an instrument. Most builders want to build something which will last through a variety of conditions, and if even a small change in humidity might emperil such a delicately balanced instrument (wood swells, strings stay the same length, more tension, BLAMMO!)... well, I don't think a builder would put in the time in order to have a timebomb out there, waiting to explode on their reputation. Do you?

Let's see if there's anyone out there who makes not just the guitars, but also strings for those guitars....

Ah! Martin has the same tension parabola on the strings they make as other string makers. Is it possible that Martin knows something?

Another company making both instruments and strings, one which was willing to toss tradition out the window, is Kaman, maker of Ovation and Adamas guitars. Their string sets have the same parabola, and they did their research work from the ground up.

I might see Rick Davis and Cat Fox later this week. If so, I'll ask them if anyone is building instruments so close to the failure point. I suspect I know the answer already, but one never knows....
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