[Hot Vibrato]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Gypsy jazz guitars: upper mids and all fundamental, very dry.

Nothing like them. VERY fun guitars, and as loud as anything.

I love the Gypsy jazz sound, but I've never played a real Selmer Macafari guitar, or any of the reproductions made by top luthiers, and I've been unimpressed with the import versions that I have seen. I just don't think many high quality examples exist in the region in which I live. However, it seems that with such light strings, they would be at a disadvantage in terms of sheer volume (lighter strings = less top movement = less volume). I've often wondered how Django was even heard at the clubs in Paris, using 1930's sound reinforcement technology. Have you ever tried playing an acoustic guitar in a loud club? Impossible to hear acoustically, and tricky to mic, even with modern technology. It's maybe a subject for another thread, but I wonder how it was possible back then for Django's solos to be audible in a live venue.

Originally Posted by MD1983

Well, if we're talking about what an average flattop sounds like, I'll say that the average archtop sounds way worse imo.

I guess I'm the one who used the word "average", but I wasn't considering that most flat tops and archtops in existence are cheap student brands that are mostly unacceptable for any serious player. So let's forget about Kays, Harmonys, Silvertones, or other cheapo brands for the moment. If we're comparing Gibson and Epiphone's vintage archtops vs. Gibson's and Martin's' flat tops from the same timeframe, then I disagree. I would say that the average archtop sounds better to me. It may be apples and oranges, but I like the archtop sound better, and they're far more versatile than some folks on this thread give them credit for.

Originally Posted by MD1983

The ones that have sounded great to me come with a price tag close to $10,000

Much like Gypsy jazz guitars, there's not many boutique archtops in this region, but I've played plenty of vintage Gibson and Epiphone archtops, and great sounding examples can be had for $2000 or less. In my experience, the more expensive models are more ornate, but they don't sound much better than their more humble counterparts. In fact, I prefer the sound of Gibson's parallel-braced guitars to their more expensive X-braced models, and Epiphone's parallel-braced models sound even better to me than Gibson's.

You can have the $10,000 archtops. There are plenty of more affordable, more modest vintage guitars that sound just beautiful to my ears.

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

I've been playing archtops since 1962, and if you can't achieve at least as great a range of dynamics and tone color from an all-solid carved archtop as you do from an all-solid flattop, you're not playing it correctly, period....
...and when approached with both the requisite technique and the requisite mindset there's very little a good archtop can't accomplish;

Thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

FYI archtops were considered virtuoso instruments in their day (there was a whole school of classical and classically-influenced music that grew up around them between the wars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKaEiY4Xelc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc1zuJ3VjLI

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Archtops were re-designed in the early '20s as orchestral rhythm instruments.

Nobody bothered to tell Eddie Lang that he was using the wrong guitar for his solo pieces: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQjSf4nxP7Q

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Does it occur to anyone that whilst one may consider generalising both flat-tops and, say, solid electric guitars, and saying that one sounds better would obviously be banal, as they are two very differnt musical instruments and one cold not generalise the sound of a flat-top (e.g. am 0-18 with an SJ200 or a Guild 12 string) let alone "electric" guitar - e.g. A telecaster, with a les Paul, with a ..whatever, as they will all sound differnt, and are affercted by the amplification.

To compare the generalised sound of an archtop guitar with a generalised notion of a flat-top is as useful as comparing an orange with a bicycle.

Maybe so... I was just pointing out the fact that I'm disappointed in the tone of most "good" flat tops. If I hadn't brought it up, then we wouldn't be having this interesting conversation. I always enjoy reading your thoughtful remarks, so thanks for contributing.