[KevWind]

=Joseph Hanna;2225535]OK KevWind
The Digi LE pre-amps have been forum battered and bruised since the original 001. They deserve very little of the constant battering they take and in fact some MAJOR retail distributors have done endless, and in the end comical, blind tests where even the most critical listeners are unable to distinguish just what is what.

No doubt, and you do make some very good points that people might want to consider. However unfortunately I haven't heard any of these test you are referring to. I do know that if those Major retailers conducted those tests in their stores, I have no doubt the situation was comical. I have tried in vain to do some critical listening in GC for example it was quite impossible. " Even if those test were done in favorable sonic situations the "the most critical listeners" part means what exactly?

Can you articulate, specifically and exactly how sonically the 003 pre's are not up to par?

Be glad to. First I said up to the par of the software or perhaps I should have said potential of what the PTLE software was capable of reproducing. However In my basement studio. (see pic below) the tracks I recorded straight int the 002 as compared to those tracked thru the outboard pre (A Designs MP2A) and the Rosetta to my ears lacked in both depth and width comparatively. Granted not by life changeing amounts but I felt it was indeed noticeable. Could it be buyer prejudice? or justification syndrome? Very possible. I did a lot of "Critical listening" as you might call it in the 5 years I spent selling and installing Hi Fidelity stereo equipment so I gotta go with my ears but as you state later, don't we all ? Also I think I was fairly clear with my IMOs

Digi had a very brief and VERY volatile relationship with Focusrite in the early 2000's. Originally Focusrite wanted to ride Digi's recent success and long coat tails into some organized North American distributorship network. Digi of course saw a small hardware manufacturer that perhaps over the long haul could supplement future Digi hardware endeavors. That was roughly the time the original "blue" m-box was on the drawling board. I was there at the time and where I recall someone mentioning that Focusrite lent a hand with some very peripheral suggestions as to pre-amp implementation it did NOT go much further than that...on any level. The relationship ended um...abruptly.

Could be !! I don't know personally. I do know what I was told by the retailer from whom I purchased the 002 " "these are focusrite pres in here" late 2002.

Your new outboard pre and certainly the Rosetta are, I'm sure, great devices. I've had some very good friends in the past at Apogee and I know them as very viable and knowledgeable players in the audio world. That said we did endless and exhausting testing in the 5 or 6 years I was in that position. We always came to the conclusion that in the most perfect and critical testing studios with the absolute best engineers available on the west coast there was "on some days" a slight difference between Digi's converters/clocks and Apogees converters/clocks....at best. We of course NEVER walked away from any test not being totally impressed with the Apogee stuff but we always wondered how so many M-Box/basement studio users had grown such enormously sensitive ears as to be critical of Digi pres and converters which by our judgment where incredible bargins and the margin of sonic differences negated by the average home/project studio environment.

In the end you'll hear what it is YOU want to hear. The moment you invest $1000.00 in Apogee equipment you can rest assured that you're gonna hear a difference.

Yes indeed ( buyer justification) this one gets about as much forum air play as bashing digi pres and converters does it not.? Another question that then comes mind is: In your opinion, would this then render the claims and upgrades from Black Lion specious and a sham ?

The thought of high end Apogee converters and clocks in a typical bedroom or basement studio fraught with unsolvable acoustic flaws is comical and wholly NOT necessary.

Quite, if the acoustic are indeed actually unsolvable. then that well might be the case

It's an advantage that quite frankly VERY few will ever be able to actually hear and less actually convert to noticeable sonic improvements to a listener.

OK Joseph, I realize you are attempting to place this in perspective, from your prospective and much of what you state is very likely the case. But the other side of the coin might be, that its not necessarily categorically true. From another perspective could this be viewed as fairly sweeping general assumption, proffered in the thought that only pros in hundred thousand dollar rooms can have good ears? or can realize the benefits from the sonics of high end gear?
Really I am not trying to argue because I believe you are genuinely attempting to suggest that for many people in many situations the Digi pres are more than adequate and they may not be best served by expensive outboard gear. With this I would agree completely . T Situations do change however and as you say below

."Everyone should investigate and purchase WHATEVER it is that they deem as right for them" But for the beginner guys who might invest in hardware needlessly when in fact so many ducks are not and most likely won't be in a row seems to be the inevitable cart before the horse.

no disagreement here that room acoustics are quite important and should be something done at the get go. I think what both alohachris and myself were pointing out in terms recording a guitar and vocals and for possible longer term use into the future.That two higher end channels might be a better investment that 6 or 8 entry level channels.

The pre's and converters in the Digi 003 are in fact better than most will ever have the environment to take advantage of.

Perhaps, perhaps not. You say the DiGi pre are at or close to high end. However Black Lion has made a business out of saying, not so. Again this seems to assume most will not evolve into having better acoustics or develop more critical listening skills. One thought comes to mind though, remember when one looks at the Lists of Guitars on this sight there indeed seems to be a penchant for spending fairly good amounts of $ on something deemed worthwhile for sonics. Yet one can only play one at a time.
The Basement studio as you can see at least a prelim attempt to tame the acousticts