[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by L50EF15

...to fill the gap in the mass market for affordable archtops? And by affordable, I mean a range from about $500 to about $2500.

...spinning out my thoughts, I think it’s possible to fill the old Harmony/Kay slot, one Godin’s well regarded 5th Avenue also filled. Go from all-laminated instruments through pressed solid wood to carved solid wood. Or leave out the carved versions entirely.

Intuitively, it seems that the archtop equivalent of a D-18 or J-45 could be sold at about the same price as those icons. And since all mass production North American acoustic guitars are flattops now, novelty value (I guess what they call “unique selling point” in biz speak) alone should garner sales.

...Ideally, the sizes would run small (14”); medium (16"); and large (18")...

What would it take?...

A few reflections of my own:

• For better or worse archtops are, like resonators, considered by the mass guitar-buying public to be niche instruments associated with a narrow range of musical styles;
• Their tonal envelope, projection, and unforgiving nature - in their 1930's heyday they were considered virtuoso instruments - place technical demands on the typical "OM with 1-3/4" prewar neck" flattop player that as a whole they're unable/unwilling to meet, instead relying on the softer attack and longer sustain of a flattop (which also provide a certain instant gratification factor that most archtops don't);
• Just as Gibson discontinued the entry-level J-15 when it turned out to be too much guitar for too little money, they're not likely to produce affordable archtops of any kind - and it's my understanding that they never bothered to train any of their current personnel in the process of carving and tuning top and back plates (translation: absent the return of Jim Triggs or Ren Ferguson, or the hiring of a similarly-talented individual luthier, we've seen our last brand-new Super 400, L-5, L-4, etc.);
• Luthiers like Mark Campellone and Stephen Holst (among others) have long since proven that world-class hand-carved archtops can be produced on American soil for around $5K - and for a market that buys with their ears and hands rather than by the label on the headstock there's little incentive to spend three to five times as much for a factory instrument;
• For reasons best known to them alone, Godin has no intention of producing any more acoustic archtops in spite of the cult status of the 5th Avenue - this was confirmed in writing to a fellow AGF'er who inquired about the possibility of producing an all-acoustic 5th Avenue Jumbo around the $1K price point;
• Gretsch's New Yorker and Loar's LH-300 - both solid carved-top instruments priced in the $500 entry-level range and intended to compete with Godin's laminated 5th Avenue - were miserable failures both tonally and construction-wise, as was the Epiphone Masterbilt line of the 2010's;
• The better-quality Chinese instruments like Loar's LH-600/700 and Eastman's 600-Series (designed by late Epiphone guru Jim Fisch and pitched as excellent transition instruments for flattop players) own the affordable market hands-down when it comes to a new carved archtop, and there are still plenty of vintage USA Epiphones (both New York and, to a lesser extent, Kalamazoo) to be had for similar money so that much of the demand is met - much but not all, which leads me to:
• There was a long-standing rumor that Epiphone, having realized their error in producing the not-quite-fish/not-quite-fowl (mostly foul IME ) Masterbilts, were discontinuing them in favor of an all-carved line based on their historic New York models and priced to compete with Loar and Eastman - and although it never materialized the current 150th Anniversary Zephyr Deluxe Regent (a fairly-accurate rendition of a mildly-modified circa-1953 example) lends some credence to the story that they were at least in the early stages of development;
• There were similar rumblings that Guild was, also in response to Godin's 5th Avenue, set to offer a Korean-built reissue of the all-laminated Hoboken-era 16" A-50 archtop (erstwhile competitor to the Gibson L-48, Gretsch New Yorker, the midline Harmonys/Kays, and the better jobber/off-brands), as a companion to the solid-top 17" A-150 Savoy and based on the current T-50 Slim Jim - but with the demise of the 5th Avenue that too seems to have gone nowhere;
• There's a new generation of all-carbon-fiber archtops out there (pioneered by Rainsong in the '90s, several other makers - Emerald, Martin Lewis, and most notably Fibertone - have taken up the torch) that offer similar advantages to their flattop brethren in terms of durability, consistency, and tone (the latter admittedly very difficult to achieve with wooden instruments) at prices comparable to the best all-carved import and entry-level American luthier fare - a difficult combination to beat...

In short, an excellent idea in principle - FYI I'm 100% on board - but unfortunately highly unlikely to occur in practice...