Thinking about picking up the Banjo, looking for some input
 

OK, old guy, getting ready to pounce on the half a century mark. Have been playing the Guitar, mostly acoustic for about 10 years, and I am somewhat competent, I can butcher any number of songs. I am really drawn to that down home sound of the banjo, so thinking about grabbing one just for fun. BTW, all my playing is for fun, I don't gig, other than with my kids, my playing is strictly back porch strumming. So, my questions.

How hard to transition from a guitar to a banjo? Guitar is my only insrtrument, I am for the most part self taught, some lessons, but mostly on line and you tube. I am never gonna rock the world but I know enough to be dangerous. Basic music skills and know enought to keep me happy.

What about a 6 string banjo? The Bantar or Guitjo, or what ever they call it, can I get the same sound out of that as out of a regular ol 5 string banjo?

Any and all input greatly appreciated.

g'day riperoo, i took up the banjo a while ago after "playing" guitar for a long time and i found it a different beast indeed, its easy enough too get used to the basic chord shapes and if you have fingerpicked a bit ,but if you want to play bluegrass scrugs style it takes a while to get your fingers going correctly and getting that bounce,im still not there ,but i havent been applying myself lately since i got my mandolin,which i have found much easier .
i love the sound of the banjo as well so i understand where you are coming from so if you havn't got your heart set on a banjo ,i would look at a mandolin,its, imo a much easier transition but having said that it cant hurt to have....both!
as far as the banjitar goes ive never played one, perhaps taylor swift could chime in ;);)

Thanks Matonman, and I spit my beer on the Taylor Swift reference. Thanks for the info, I would never have thought the Mandolin was an easier transition than the Banjo. That is definitely on my list. Maybe I will have to go there first.

I found the 5 string banjo very difficult, takes many hours to perfect the needed "rolls". I have a 6 string Bantar and it is loud. I bought a 4 string long neck tenor banjo, called a plectrum banjo, and I tune the four strings like the 4 smallest strings on a guitar, some call it Nashville tuning, works and sounds fine and I can use standard guitar chords.

I went the other direction: I was an obsessive, compulsive 5-string banjo player for close to 30 years before becoming an obsessive compulsive fingerstyle/classical guitar player (which started about 8 years ago).

I'm a banjo snob, and I tend to view 5-string banjos as the real deal, and everything else as being inferior. OK, yes, tenor banjos are legitimate instruments (but really, whole different beasts), as are 6 string banjos (I guess), but a 5-string banjo is something special that presents some unique opportunities that other (inferior ;) ) forms of banjo lack. A 6-string banjo could probably be a a lot of fun, but if you want a really genuine, traditional banjo sound I don't think you are going to get this without a 5-string banjo. If you want to sound like Pete Seeger or Earl Scruggs or Tony Trischka or Bela Fleck, get a 5 string banjo. If you want to play Foggy Mountain Breakdown (like in the Bonnie and Clyde movie) or The Ballad of Jed Clampett (theme song from The Beverly Hillbillies - people love it when I play this), get a 5-string banjo. If you want to sound like the old traditional clawhammer/frailing style players, get a 5-string banjo. Yes, I'm a banjo snob.

A 5-string banjo has very small intervals between the strings (in standard G tuning anyway), and past the 5th fret (which is where the 5th string starts) the 1st and 5th strings are the same note (and past a certain point on the neck most notes can be played in 4 or 5 different places on the neck - I'm talking about the exact same pitch here). This allows for really really smooth runs of notes, which can be played rapidly with a smoothness that is hard to achieve on a guitar - this is the basis of the banjo sound in some styles of playing (e.g. melodic style). In other styles of playing the 5th string is sometimes (or usually) used as a drone string, and this is integral to other sorts of banjo sounds.

When I play guitar I miss the ease of playing smooth chromatic runs and such that can come so naturally on 5-string banjo. When I play banjo, I miss the bass notes and the relative ease with which you can have multiple things going on at once (e.g. in a well developed fingerstyle guitar arrangement).

Any instrument, whether guitar or banjo, is going to take a lot of time before you feel really comfortable and competent. When I first started banjo I played Foggy Mountain Breakdown (Scruggs style) and Cripple Creek (a frailing/clawhammer arrangement) over and over and over and over..........and over and over.......and over and over again, really badly, for about a year. Then I started adding some pieces, which I also played badly. About 2 years and many hours into this things really started to come together, and a lot of things I had been working on and playing badly for some time started to really sound good.

When I started playing fingerstyle guitar in earnest (after decades with banjo), I sounded pretty bad, and felt pretty clumsy for a few years. It was not until I had been at this for about 5 years that I really started to feel I was playing things really well (and I certainly was no beginner when it came to stringed instruments in general).

I don't think banjo is fundamentally any harder than fingerstyle/classical guitar. Due to the nature of the instrument, banjo players tend to play a lot in certain keys (G is "Gods Key" in standard tuning on 5-string banjo, though people also play a lot in C, and D, and there are a variety of alternate tunings that are commonly used, such as C, D, and D minor tuning). Standard tuning on 5-string banjo is an open G chord. Given the fact that a lot of pieces tend to be arranged in a few commonly used keys, and given the narrow neck, and the light strings that many banjo players prefer, the left hand tends to have it easier on 5-string banjo than on guitar. The bigger challenge is in training your right hand (but then when you go back to guitar your guitar playing friends will be amazed by your right hand!).

I see no advantage to playing mandolin first. Play mandolin if you want to play mandolin (I play mandolin too - it is much more like guitar flatpicking than banjo playing). If you are attracted to banjo (a sign of good taste, in my book ;) ), then by all means get a banjo and give it a shot.

I learned with the aid of several main books:

The classic by Pete Seeger:

http://www.amazon.com/5-String-Banjo...bxgy_mov_img_b

Earl Scruggs' classic book:

http://www.amazon.com/Earl-Scruggs-5...9888678&sr=8-2

Tony Trischka's wonderful melodic banjo book (I used an earlier edition of this that I got in about 1980):

http://www.elderly.com/books/items/01-963149.htm

Peter Wernick's Bluegrass Banjo book:

http://www.amazon.com/Bluegrass-Banj.../dp/0825601487


Also, a big collection of banjo arrangements (that might interest you in a few years maybe) can be found here:

http://www.frettedinstrumentsnyc.com

(This is also a mother lode of fantastic fingerstyle guitar arrangements!)


I also had some Flatt and Scruggs records that I listened to a lot (and listened to slowed down to hear better what was going on - the Petticoat Junction theme song sounded pretty funny with the female voices (saying "Petticoat Junction") slowed down and sounding like big burly but rather effeminate men!).

I started out playing a Sears banjo from a Sears outlet store, and played that for about 5 or 6 years before building a much MUCH nicer banjo from a Stewart MacDonald kit. I can't stand to play that old Sears banjo now (but still have it). You don't need a top of the line banjo to learn on, but don't get a piece of junk (like my Sears banjo) either!

Your guitar knowledge will make learning banjo easier, and your guitar skills and sensibilities will enhance your banjo playing. Learning banjo will also enhance and transform what you do on guitar in some very nice ways.

By the way, as I said above, many notes on a 5-string banjo can be played in at least 4 (and often 5) different locations on the neck (again, I'm talking about the exact same pitch being playable in 4 or 5 places), and often these locations are not physically all that far apart. What this means is there is usually a really large number of possible ways of fingering a given sequence of notes. Some ways will be impossible to play. Others will be possible but awkward. One or two ways will likely be elegant in their simplicity and efficiency. Playing banjo well comes down, in large part, to discovering those elegantly simple fingerings, without which many things that banjo players play would be darn near impossible. This is one of the reasons why banjo players can often play so fast (though some of my favorite banjo playing is actually the slow stuff - don't fall into the trap of just playing everything on banjo as fast as you can....hotrodding a banjo can be great fun, but if played with finesse, and especially if played slower, a banjo can have a lovely expressive nuanced sound that is wonderful).

So, fingerings are everything on banjo. Well, not everything, but a big part of the battle. Yes, fingerings are a big deal on guitar too, but there are fewer fingering options for a given sequence of notes on guitar.

Consequently, even more so than guitar players, 5-string banjo players tend to LOVE tablature, because it maps out those all important fingerings. Even if I had learned to sight read all the notes on the banjo neck when I first started to play banjo, I would have found it VERY difficult to get competent on banjo without tablature to map out the fingerings for me.

A lot of great info from wcap there!

I've been playing 5-string banjo for about 3 years now and love it! I learned to play Scruggs style by practicing the various rolls over and over and over.
The most difficult part of that process was getting my ear used to my thumb playing the high 5th string. Having first learned Travis style fingerpicking on guitar I kept experiencing a mental disconnect by expecting to hear an alternating bass pattern coming from my thumb. Once I got used to that the proficiency came fairly easily.

And yes, I'm a banjo snob too so my advice is to stay away from those 6-string banjo 'imposters'. You'll never get an authentic sound from them simply because the picking patterns on one of those will never be the same as on the traditional 5-string banjo.

Wow, great info Wcap, much apprecited. I am definitely leaning towards a five string. I considered a mandolin for about a 1/2 hour, but then I started listening and watching some you tube stuff on both instruments and the banjo is just screaming my name. At some point I will probably wind up with a mandolin as well, but I think you have pushed me over the line with regard to a banjo. Thanks again!

From my own experience: First of all, right-hand technique on banjo is entirely different from guitar because of that high drone 5th string. Your brain is going to rebel a little in the beginning. Secondly, it's important to make a decision about what kind of music you want to play on the banjo before purchasing one.
Bluegrass banjo, which is fingerpicked (thumb plays down-strokes, fingers play up-strokes) sounds much better on a banjo with a resonator back. Old-time mountain banjo uses a right-hand technique called frailing, in which both the thumb and fingers are all down-strokes. That kind of music works best on an open-backed banjo. While the two styles are transferable, they just sound better on the instruments they were intended for.
Hope that makes sense and helps.

I don't know about all 5-string banjo designs, but the resonator on my banjo, as well as all the resonator mounting plates or flanges or whatever they are called, could be removed if I wanted to turn mine into an open back banjo.

Yes, though certain other aspects of some banjo playing styles are remarkably similar to certain guitar styles. The sorts of fingerings often used in melodic banjo arrangements are often very similar to some of the fingerings I encounter in some classical guitar pieces.

By the way, if you have ever experienced the charm of a ukulele (in standard tuning with the 4th string a higher pitch than the 3rd) played fingerstyle you have experienced some of what I also find so charming about 5-string banjos. That 5th string on a 5-string banjo is what makes the instrument really really cool.

WOW. Thanks for all this info. Saved me a lot of googling! I too have been drawn to the sound of the banjo particularly from listening to so much Mumford & Sons. (And of course the movie Deliverance ... LOL.)

I've been playing both guitar and banjo for about 48 years. Learned 'em together, so my playing style on each instrument is influenced by the other.

There's lot's of different styles of banjo playing. Check out www.banjohangout.org for some lively discussions. I don't play bluegrass. I do a mixture of frailing (usually called claw hammer nowadays), two-finger picking, and three-finger picking (non-Scruggs) plus other stuff that could be classified as "folk banjo"

I do all this on a banjo that would be called a "blue-grass" banjo, but it don't care what I do with my fingers. Only the blue-grass and old-time police care about that, and I don't let 'em bother me none.

Whatever style you decide on, it'll take a lot of retraining of your fingers. That fifth string and the different layout of the fingerboard make all the difference in the world.

One thing to note though is that in standard G tuning on a 5-string banjo the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th strings are tuned the same as in standard tuning on guitar. That being said, despite that commonality, the banjo doesn't feel as much like a guitar when playing it (in terms of layout of notes and such) as this information about those three strings might make it seem.

It was interesting though on one occasion when I handed my banjo to a non-banjo playing friend who is an accomplished guitar flatpicker. Using just those three strings he was able, immediately, to improvise all sorts of cool things (with sort of a jazzy flair) on my banjo that sounded nothing like my normal banjo playing, but sounded really nice!

By the way, for some inspiration regarding some of the wonderful things you can do with a banjo besides really fast bluegrass music, take a look at this recent thread and the many cool links within:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=237357

Banjo advice is similar to what you tell kids who find a gun. " Stop!, Don't touch!, Call an adult!"

banjo
 

Yes the banjo bug can bite hard......really gets in your blood....Ive been playing since 1985 after going to a bluegrass festival....One word of caution..You can drive your other household members NUTS !! while learning the right hand rolls.... My wife HATES !! the banjo for that reason...also to some people all banjo tunes sound the same ( wife says why do you play same song over and over) I said I didnt !!.......You should go for it cause its calling YOUR NAME....

Two things you can do to facilitate more banjo practice time than your family (and/or their sleep schedules) might otherwise tolerate:

- You can stuff a t-shirt or small towel or something inside the resonator.

- You can use a violin mute (or I guess you can get mutes designed for banjos). Quiets the instrument down. Also gives really long sustain, which can be a really cool sound in its own right.

OK, 3 things....

- If you are working on fingerpicking styles (e.g. Scruggs style, melodic style) that normally involve fingerpicks, you can practice without picks, and play as softly as you can. It is amazing how much you can improve your right hand control this way, especially if you are trying really hard to not have any loud obnoxious sounding plunks happen that would bother others. Seriously, I used to find this to be a really powerful practice technique, initially born out of necessity, but with surprising results.

- well, 4 things...

Also, I used to practice picking patterns on my knee. I can play a lovely air-banjo rendition of Foggy Mountain Breakdown on my knee, or on my daughter's head, or on the arm of a chair or sofa, or wherever, even to this day!:D

- OK, 5 things....

I have heard of people setting up Telecasters (or other electrics) as 5-string banjos (using various forms of single string capos for the 5th string). This would allow for a normal playing feel (not muted with towels or mutes) but it could be really quiet for others (e.g. if you play unplugged, or if you play with headphones). The Banjo Hangout forum has multiple threads about this (and I initially thought I had come up with the idea!... I never got around to doing this though).

banjo
 

Hey wcap.... I used to practice my rolls on my knee also ..Your mentioning that brought back memories ! I did it so much my family thought I had a nervous TIC .... Hey whatever it takes....A little more info to the OP They used to sell a practice board that had 5 strings strung up on it that you could hold and do rolls on ...magazine called banjo newsletter had these ...but the air knee method works ok.. Hey the banjo IS CALLING YOU I can hear it !!

Thank you all for some really great advise, took the first step last night and ordered Pete Segers how to play the 5 string and Banjo Primer by Geoff Hohwald off of amazon. I have seen them recomended so figured I would start there. Looking at Deering goodtime banjo, but open to other recomendations. I found the Deering recomended around here on several threads, like that it is made in the USA as well. Getting pretty excited. Just thinking about it, and realized I bought my first guitar when I turned 40, my midlife crisis, here I am almost exactly 10 years later buying a banjo, I know I am going to catch some cr*p from the wife!!!!

dont worry about the missus,just go for it,as someone here once said "its easier to get the wifes forgivness than to get her permission".

matonman,

How popular are 5-string banjos in Australia? And are there certain 5-string banjo playing styles that tend to be most popular there?

I can't add much to what has already been said except to put my vote in for the 5-stringer ...

I was introduced to the banjo when I was 15, playing guitar in a Bluegrass band. Because we would switch instruments for a song or 2 in our show, I was "forced" to learn banjo. Being a guitar finger picker to begin with, my learning curve for the banjo was smaller ...

Flash forward to 30 years later ... I decided to buy my first banjo ... some of the form came back to me right away but I was very rusty and had to dig in for a few months to get back to a respectable level ...

Then about 2 years ago, I decided I wanted a certain guitar that required me to sell some instruments which included my banjo. I felt OK with the decision at the time, but realized how much I missed playing it. So a few months ago, I purchased a simple open back 5-string. A very enjoyable banjo.

I am not a very fast player; more melodic and medium speed. But I really enjoy the banjo (and pretty much anything with strings).

Happy hunting, learning and playing!

i would say there's 1000 guitar players to 1 banjo player ,so pretty rare i'd say
.the best players down here play mostly bluegrass style 3 finger stuff .
hamish davidson is worth a look.
these days banjo is all over modern country music but for some reason people just dont really "hear" them, you obviously have an ear for it ,but remember, the rest of the family may not:lol::lol:

"It's impossible to play the banjo for any length of time and stay depressed." -- Steve Martin