The Acoustic Guitar Forum

The Acoustic Guitar Forum (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/index.php)
-   PLAY and Write (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27)
-   -   Fingerstyle: Assigning Fingers to Strings vs Doing What Feels Right (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448973)

jessbassdad 11-09-2016 07:14 AM

Fingerstyle: Assigning Fingers to Strings vs Doing What Feels Right
 
I am a longtime rhythm guitarist who is learning fingerstyle for the first time in my mid-50s. I have some catching up to do.

Right now I'm working my way through Justinguitar.com's lessons. He and others I've seen recommend generally assigning fingers to specific strings:

T - Thumb - bass notes on EAD
1- Index - G
2- Middle - B
3- Ring - High E

Of course Justin explains that are exceptions to these basic rules.

But I feel myself starting to use my ring finger more on other strings. And overall use my index finger less. Sort of blowing off the structure presented above.

So my question is this - as I learn this new skill should try to stick to this structure, or abandon all discipline and play what feels good? As long as it sounds good, right?

Just trying to head off bad habits before they take over completely.

Thoughts, anyone?

Thanks.

Guest4562 11-09-2016 07:22 AM

If I try to do that it means I'm thinking about it. If I think about it I'll mess it up. I just let my fingers do what they want as long as it sounds the way I want.

Mr. Jelly 11-09-2016 07:50 AM

I think it depends on what you are trying to accomplish and what style of music you are aiming to play. I think, I don't know, that classical guitar music demands that you play according to the established rules. And for good reason I'm sure. If you are doing pop music I don't know that it demands that you use the correct finger on the established string. As for country ragtime blues almost every person that established the music used their fingers differently so it's not so strict.

rick-slo 11-09-2016 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessbassdad (Post 5122635)
T - Thumb - bass notes on EAD
1- Index - G
2- Middle - B
3- Ring - High E

It is something (a rule?) to learn to use as fits in appropriately and then move beyond in your thinking. Such a finger assignment is fine for some things (for example six string arpeggios and various chords (not the D chord) in Travis picking. Obviously finger assignments will vary with such as inside and partial arpeggios, block chords, etc..

GBS 11-09-2016 10:54 AM

The suggestion of assigning fingers to strings will help you, in the very beginning, to focus your learning. BUT, you should move away from that as soon as you can. It is amazingly difficult to break away from the rule after you've been at it for a while. I find myself playing pieces where the thumb has to play the high E, and the first finger (or middle) has to hit the low E or A strings. There is just no other way to hit the right note at the right time, without hopelessly mushing the piece. That was a hard bridge to cross after playing by the general rule for a long time. Which finger hits which string is determined by what you last did, and what you will next be doing, as well as what tone you want to get out of the note (it varies, depending on the finger used!). Eventually, you will be able to determine which finger when and where is appropriate to give you the easiest playing with the best tone. Limiting yourself to a specific string for a specific finger ultimately limits you in what you can play.

Pitar 11-09-2016 06:32 PM

Initially I assigned my fingers - thumb through little finger - and remained that way for a long time. I can't say why. I just did it that way and developed adept use of each finger in the fairly confined space of each string. Probably saw a classical player and placed some conventions on my own learning. Then I began using fewer fingers and developed the thumb over the upper 4 strings in conjunction with the first two fingers (blues stuff). Now I'm all over the place and use any number of fingers in any piece as it seems appropriate.

What feels right is not an explanation of method. You could feel not using the middle finger feels right, for instance, and I'd have to slay that dragon in the egg.

macmanmatty 11-09-2016 07:31 PM

My finger assignments are as follows

Thumb 6th 5th 4th and rarely the 3rd strings

Index 4th and 3rd strings

Middle 2nd and 3rd strings

Ring 1st string

Pinky does not rest anywhere

ljguitar 11-09-2016 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessbassdad (Post 5122635)
I am a longtime rhythm guitarist who is learning fingerstyle for the first time in my mid-50s. I have some catching up to do.

Right now I'm working my way through Justinguitar.com's lessons. He and others I've seen recommend generally assigning fingers to specific strings:

T - Thumb - bass notes on EAD
1- Index - G
2- Middle - B
3- Ring - High E

Of course Justin explains that are exceptions to these basic rules.

But I feel myself starting to use my ring finger more on other strings. And overall use my index finger less. Sort of blowing off the structure presented above.

So my question is this - as I learn this new skill should try to stick to this structure, or abandon all discipline and play what feels good? As long as it sounds good, right?

Just trying to head off bad habits before they take over completely.

Thoughts, anyone?

Thanks.

Hi jbd…
Fingerstyle is rooted in your thumb and the fingers involved being trained to know where they are in relationship with each other, and then working in concert with your other fingers in an efficient manner to accomplish patterned play and picking out melody or harmony notes for certain fingered styles.

There are three basic approaches:
Thumb-n-three fingers
Thumb-n-two fingers
Thumb-n-one finger (Travis picking)

All classical training consists of the Thumb-n-three finger play, and a good share of jazz players and fingerstylists deploy thumb-n-three fingers. It's great for arpeggiating chords, outlining melodies, and plucking chords and inversions while adding bass notes or bass lines.

I always start students by having them learn patterns till they can play them with great freedom without even giving them a lot of thought, and in any key with the thumb covering the bass and first finger of the plucking hand covering the 3rd string, second finger covering the second string, and ring finger the first string.

Then I have them shift the fingers to strings 2-3-4 and still learn patterns and plucking chords (and arpeggiating them).

After that we begin wandering more, and once the patterns are ingrained into their hands/minds, they wander with skill and order.

It's not about what feels comfortable or right. Once you learn patterned play, it feels right and it's comfortable. Until it's worked into your fiber it's no more comfortable than any undisciplined technique you have learned.




kdcee 11-09-2016 08:44 PM

The Giuliani studies
 
I suggest working on at least the first 20 of these studies. Once you have them down your fingers will find their own way.
http://www.classclef.com/pdf/Opus%20...20Giuliani.pdf

Wyllys 11-09-2016 09:08 PM

Your fingering will likely change over time as you get a "library" of the sound shapes called chords. I play my basic voicings using triads and the longer I play, the simpler and more versatile the fingering becomes...a matter of playing only what you need (most often a triad of melody note, bass note and "color" or "sweetening" tone) and fingering/picking only a minimum.

Thinking in basic triads rather than full chords simplifies the whole process. Of course, using a common finger per string in a phrase or change gives you a reference point as does working a fingering around a fret in common. Additionally, fingerings will often vary depending on what precedes and what follows. Using points of commonality is often the key to smooth phrasing.

It's a life-long process and evolves bit by bit over time.

Wyllys 11-09-2016 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdcee (Post 5123265)
I suggest working on at least the first 20 of these studies. Once you have them down your fingers will find their own way.
http://www.classclef.com/pdf/Opus%20...20Giuliani.pdf

I would offer the alternative of learning 20 tunes or 20 variations of the same tune. Studies are OK, but I prefer the contextual reference of learning within the songs themselves.

Wyllys 11-09-2016 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljguitar (Post 5123257)
Hi jbd…
Fingerstyle is rooted in your thumb and the fingers involved being trained to know where they are in relationship with each other, and then working in concert with your other fingers in an efficient manner to accomplish patterned play and picking out melody or harmony notes for certain fingered styles.

There are three basic approaches:
Thumb-n-three fingers
Thumb-n-two fingers
Thumb-n-one finger (Travis picking)

All classical training consists of the Thumb-n-three finger play, and a good share of jazz players and fingerstylists deploy thumb-n-three fingers. It's great for arpeggiating chords, outlining melodies, and plucking chords and inversions while adding bass notes or bass lines.

I always start students by having them learn patterns till they can play them with great freedom without even giving them a lot of thought, and in any key with the thumb covering the bass and first finger of the plucking hand covering the 3rd string, second finger covering the second string, and ring finger the first string.

Then I have them shift the fingers to strings 2-3-4 and still learn patterns and plucking chords (and arpeggiating them).

After that we begin wandering more, and once the patterns are ingrained into their hands/minds, they wander with skill and order.

It's not about what feels comfortable or right. Once you learn patterned play, it feels right and it's comfortable. Until it's worked into your fiber it's no more comfortable than any undisciplined technique you have learned.




That's all well and good, but the OP is talking about the fretting, not the picking...

rick-slo 11-09-2016 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyllys (Post 5123290)
That's all well and good, but the OP is talking about the fretting, not the picking...

Picking, not the fretting.

Wyllys 11-09-2016 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo (Post 5123331)
Picking, not the fretting.

Oops, sorry. I just had eye surgery and reading is not easy at the moment.

Just be glad You didn't meet me while I'm driving...

jim1960 11-09-2016 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessbassdad (Post 5122635)
So my question is this - as I learn this new skill should try to stick to this structure, or abandon all discipline and play what feels good? As long as it sounds good, right?

I think there's a lot to be said for the organic approach of doing what feels right. That said, there's also a benefit to forcing yourself to learn new things to avoid everything you play sounding redundant.

I think a good rule of thumb would be this... If you're trying to learn some part of a song that is so difficult that it frustrates you and you dread having to keep going back to it, find a more organic alternative and move on. There are no awards for who's the best at copying what someone else does. Make each song your own to some degree.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:11 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum

vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=