The exact opposite of a "bright" sound?
 

I'm new here and really glad to have found this place. I've tried searching the forums for the last half hour but have found no threads relating to my question so I figured I'd ask here.

I've been playing guitar for around 14 years now and over time have started to really seek out a guitar that sounds great to me. The biggest problem I've had with all of my acoustic guitars (all have been Dreadnaughts) is that they sound absolutely way too "bright". This is further made an annoyance by the fact the 2 high (non wound) strings are so twangy and don't blend in with the sound of the lower 4.

I want something with a warm and mellow sound (I mostly finger pick, slow.. mellow, lazy, narcotic sounding acoustic stuff) and Dreadnaughts have proven to be a massive letdown for this. At least the Dreadnaughts I've used. Someone recommended nylon strings but is that really the solution? Or even a classical guitar? I admit I do love fat necks with lots of room to dance around on.

I've been looking at Seagull guitars and they look great except for one thing, all reviews suggest the bass response on them is virtually nonexistent. I love a bassy low end.. and it seems if you want a warm, bassy end sound you also have to deal with an ear piercing twang on the high end. Blick.

Is this a guitar issue or a string issue? Perhaps the twang of the two high end strings are muted down in production with most folk albums and that is why the perfect guitar sound seems to only exist in my music collection? hah..

So, in a nutshell: Could any of you recommend a guitar (of any size or style) that sounds warm, mellow, somewhat bassy, and sounds like nothing that could be described as "bright". Also, something that is a bit forgiving on my wallet.

Sorry for how long winded this is, I just wanted to be precise in case any of you knew of some recommendations. I'm all ears here.

Thanks

Something with a cedar top and rosewood back and sides should be dark, bassy and mellow.

Strings make a huge difference, silk and steel are very mellow. I'm sure there will be other people here who can advise you better on string type.

Hi flouris,
Welcome to the AGF! You can learn a lot here, stick around!

I dont know, but it sounds to me that you might be playing behind the soundhole near the bridge where the strings attach. This will produce a "Twangy" sound especially from the B and high E strings as you have noticed. Try strumming directly over the sound hole, that will alleviate the Tinny bright twangy sound you detest. Also try different strings, some brands are certainly going to be brighter than others. Im not sure what your using now but with most modern dreads even the laminates you should be able to get a nice "warm" tone out of your guitar. What are you working with??

I bet you will get a ton of suggestions, for me, Its bedtime!
Take care,

Sammy

I strum over the soundhole and actually tend to edge towards the start of the neck to get a sound with more depth.

Right now I am playing on an Alvarez RD8 but in the past have used a Joshua (obscure brand as far as I can tell), an Epiphone Dove (now that was a bright guitar), a Washburn whose name/model escapes me at the time, and countless others. Never a Taylor or Martin though.. sadly. I use mostly D'addario or Martin strings and haven't ventured outside of those much. Any suggestions for good strings? A. Dingle suggests "silk and steel" strings.. are those Martin or GHS? Or both?

Basically I've spent most of my life traveling nonstop between the States and Europe, both western and eastern. I've always been on the move and have gone through tons of guitars, mostly cheapos that I pick up in small obscure shops and keep with me until for whatever reason I have to get rid of it or leave it at an airport or train station. Well now I finally have some time to "invest" in a decent guitar (though hopefully under 1k) and wanted to try my best to find something that had a sound I love. I can't say I've ever played a guitar whose sound knocked the wind out of me.. and that is what I want.

Are Epiphone Masterbilt series guitars pretty good? I rarely see a bad word about them. And is the hope of drawing out a bassy tone from a Seagull just a pipedream of mine? Everything about that brand seems ideal on paper except the lack of bass.

Thanks for the quick responses.

On the contrary to the suggestion of a rosewood back and sides, try an old Yamaha dreadnaught (FG series) with a spruce top and a mahogany back and sides for a smooth, deep bassy tone that won't overwhelm you on the high end. Most old Yamaha's are relatively cheap and sustain for days with a pleasant rich and mellow tone. Cedar topped guitars will also get you a mellow sound. Just stay away from maple, it's one of the brighter tonewoods.

I like those Yamaha FG's a lot. But I would say try out a rosewood Martin. The OM-28v is a great choice. So are some of the D-28 variations. New, these would stretch you budget, but there are lots of used ones kicking around. In any case, it doesn't cost anything to stop by a shop and try one to see if you like the sound.

You have described a Martin. Some used are a little more or near the top of you budget but you might find what you've been looking for.

Try to play an 0M-28, a D-18, D-28 (or variations) and see what you think. Seems like you prefer the Vintage sound to the Modern sound and Martin is the Granddaddy. Another though would be Larrivee at a lower price point. Taylor and Breedlove are pretty bright guitars.

Welcome Flouris! The problem with tone is that it's very subjective. Personally I'd suggest a Guild GAD30 as having a warm, mellow sound, but I don't think there's any substitute for trekking round guitar shops and playing as many different guitars as you can to find the one that sounds best to your ears.

Fliss

It's not the guitar, it's you and the strings. I've played maple-bodied jumbos and dreads that have a nice warm sound (I own one!).

Try D'Addario "Flat tops" and use your thumb/fingers instead of a pick, or use a fat pick (2 or 3mm).

I would look at a Lowden hand made guitar. To my ear they sound exactly like the tone you describe.

To me, it's folly for anyone to recommend a specific guitar to you. Even if they were standing right next to you in a music store, you and they wouldn't hear the same sounds coming from the same guitar.

As far as Seagull guitars not having any bass response -- maybe the reviews you have read were all written by rockers with damaged hearing ... I'm an old guy with regular old guy hearing, and the Seagulls, to me, have pretty good bass. But, that's just to my ears.

All our ears are different. It might be worthwhile to have yours tested; not that it would make any difference in what you're hearing, but it might give you some insight into what you're not hearing ...

Have you ever heard a baritone guitar? You can probably find some sound samples from one on the web ... it's tuned lower and designed for the lower register ... Find a store and try one -- might be just the thing.

though the dread has disappointed you, i still want to plug an old used Martin D-35 for what you are describing here. bassy, warm, meelo, narcotic, all words to describe the sound i get out of my 1973.

good luck.

oh yeah, Gibson J-45 too. very warm and woody sounding.

welcome to AGF!

I wouldn't rule out a classical guitar. I started in college playing folk songs on a classical guitar; then pretty much ignored playing at all for about 20 years. Just a few years ago a brushed the dust off of my old classical guitar (a giannini) and started playing again. Last fall I decided to switch to a steel string guitar. So I went to a local music store and asked to play some of their better taylors, larivees and martins. They all sounded really tinny to me. It wasn't a problem with the guitars, it was just that I was accustomed to the very mellow sound of the nylon strings. So try out a couple of classical guitars and see if they have the sound you're looking for. After all, classical guitars are made for finger picking.

Try an all-mahogany guitar . . . perhaps a Martin D-15.

Also, try PB strings instead of 80/20.

mellow sound
 

Interesting question...If you have not already done so, try trimming the nails on your right hand ( if you play right handed) and play with the flesh part of your fingertips. This will take the edge off of the sound. Some prefer this ; it does seem to give satisfying chunky sound.

Also the Seagull S6 seems to have good low end response, the cedar top seems to give this influence to all the strings.

If I wanted the sound you discuss, I would use medium gauge strings if you can get comfortable with them. Many times they do produce a more "solid" sound, but this will vary with the guitar.

Random

Suggestion
 

The advice from Joel "It's not the guitar it's you" is pointless. The guitar DOES make a big difference. I kind of agree with the couple of posters who have suggestes Rosewood and Cedar. My Taylor 714ce is that combination. My rosewood/spruce larrivee is "brighter". One poster suggested mahogany/spruce. My experience with hog/spruce (and i've played a LOT of those) makes me believe that you will probably be disappointed. Not that they don't produce a great sound, but from your posts, I don't think it is a sound that will suit you at all.

Why don't you get a nylon strung guitar?

Steel strung acoustics have metal strings that go twang

Hmmm... then how do explain that most jazz guitarists play maple body guitars? According to you, they should should all be playing cedar and rosewood.
The body wood affects overtones and such, slightly, but the strings and player's technique are what makes it "bright" or not. Play your cedar/rosewood guitar with a thin pick and 80/20 strings. It won't be warm.

Agreed, especially with phosphor bronze strings. Most people consider the D-35 to be the bass king of what posters above are calling the "D-28 family." The dread might still have too much "punch" for you (something I look for), so maybe one of the rosewood OM configurations (OM-21, OM-28, or even OM-35 is you can find one) might suit you better. They also have a wider 1 3/4" nut.

As a Seagull lover, I agree that they will probably all be a bit brighter than you are looking for. Although they do have a wonderful tone of their own.

Of course, as several posters have mentioned, all this is just us spending your money. You gotta get these babies on your lap and listen to them.

One wonderful tip I was given some time ago is to also have someone else play the guitar for you. A guitar sounds a lot different from the "other side," and that's how the world hears it.

- mike

I would try out an OM or 000 model Martin with Rosewood back and sides and see how you like it. From what you described I think you will be happy. I think Taylor guitars tend to be on the brighter side.

What guitars have you owned/played? You don't mention which guitars you are talking about.

I would agree that you should look at cedar top guitars. In addition to rosewood b/s, mahogany b/s can yield a nice and warm full sound with a nice open sounding bass.

I like the Taylor 314 for all around versatility without too much brightness. I am also VERY sensitive to overly-bright guitars.

Mahogany back, sides, AND top!

Try different brands and sizes. Martin may have the sound you are looking for, including some growl in the bass.

Happy shopping.

This is a very good suggestion.

i don't think its a "folly" to recommend a specific guitar. I think recommending a specific guitar might actually be a good way to help this guy out.


If you are used to dreadnoughts, I'd suggest the Santa Cruz D/PW. Very warm yet sweet; aggressive, yet sensitive :D


Also, as aforementioned, the martin d-35 is a growler. might wanna check that out too.

My J-45 is not very bright. It warm and woody sounding. Has the Gibson "clunk". Just a thought.

Try to find a used Guild D55, some of the older ones had thicker necks.
They are a Rosewood & Sitka Spruce Dred with scalloped, 1/4 inch braces.
(Like the Martin D35 unscalloped, and HD-35 scalloped Dreds).
These guitars offer a deep,warm, rich tone, but with a great string to string seperation, that also offers a good mid and high tone.
The used Guilds can be very affordable.
Dale.

I love my 34 year old Guild D-55 that I've owned since new, but it's nowhere near as warm as my 2 year old Taylor GS cedar/mahogany. That guitar is warmth personified (guitarified?!) without being muddy and STRONG bass. Just my two cents, but probably worth less than that!

Well if you're on a $500 and below budget (from the guitars the op has talked about) I'd take a look at a new Guild GAD-25 or a used Martin D-15.
Mahogany tops. Very mellow and compared to spruce topped guitars, the non-wound strings sound muted by comparison.