What Is It About The B String?
 

I've owned a few pretty nice guitars (Martin HD-28v, Taylor 510ce..), but it seems like they've all had B string issues. I can't keep this string from going out of tune with the slightest bend, and they always seem to have a metallic "ping" that grates on my ears. I've even had them professionally set up but it always comes back. What is it about this string?

Weird.

Maybe there's something about B strings that makes them sound like that? I haven't found it but I'm sure others will chime-in and explain it if there's something to it.

If I were to guess though...maybe you have a hearing issue? Maybe the B frequency bothers your ears? Or..do you always use the same brand of strings? Maybe THEY are the problem?

As for it going out of tune...do you use great big fat strings? Like fatter than most makers would file their nuts for?
They must be binding in the nut.
For multiple guitars to do that makes no sense though (unless you're using cables as I just mentioned..wider then the slots). It has to be either the machine head or nut slot...or stringpin I suppose...but if it is one of those issues it would/should be only on one guitar..not multiple guitars.

Do you stretch the crap out of your fresh strings before you tune em?

If you aren't using strings that are too big...or regularly using the same brand and size and THEY have nasty sounding B strings..I hate to say it but..the problem HAS to be YOU.
You are the only common denominator in the equation.
Sorry..that's just logical troubleshooting I think.

Does it tune sharp or flat? If the string seems to be tuning up/sharp then it could be the nut slot is binding the string. Try taking a sharp lead pencil and put a small amount in the slot. This is an old violin trick to keep the strings from binding. If it is down-tuning/flat, then check to be sure the string is not slipping away from the tuner post. Also pull up on the string to be sure it is seated good at the bridge pin. This has always worked for me. Good luck and hope this helps.

The B string is a little tricky when it comes to intonation but I don't know that I ever had any problems with it going out of tune.

B string . . . . tuned to pitch at B will most likely be sharp at fret 3 - comes back to pitch (if you're lucky) around fret 7. These are approximations, but it's a tough string for tuning. The "buzz" is mechanical (fret, nut, saddle) - my 2 strings don't buzz, they just are a bear to tune. The guitar is tempered, the music is not. If you've seen a "fan" neck, you'll know to what extremes builders go to make the guitar work.

The best advice is always to get better as a player so no one hears the imperfections of the guitar. I saw Segovia play with gearless peg machine heads and tune on the fly - I've never blamed my guitar since.

Landru is correct.

Here is something created to combat this problem.
http://guitarplayer.files.wordpress....pg?w=400&h=300

And if you're really interested, watch some of these videos with, of all people, Steve Vai

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/articl...retboard-.html

A few weeks ago I read an article on Well-Tempering. For those pianists who hang here, that's as in Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier. What is "well-tempering"? It's tuning exactly in tune - so if we tune a piano to C Major, the 5th is, pardon the pun, a perfect 5th. Each interval is based upon the wavelength of the tonic.

OK, so what, you say. Well, we don't tune "well" any more. We tune "equal". So, our 5ths are a tad flat, etc. Each half step is exactly 1/12th of the octave. That means we're always a bit out of tune. But we're used to it, so mostly, we don't notice.

But, to me, the B string of the guitar is where I notice it, especially depending upon the key I'm playing in. I don't think that the string material is at fault, I believe it's "being equal" in tuning.

My son is a trumpet player with the WI Nat'l Guard (formerly with the 10th Mtn Div. Band as well). He tells me that, when the band is playing certain cadences the trumpets must raise their pitch ever so slightly and then, BAM!, overtones pop. What they're doing is changing from equal tempering to well-tempering.

I reserve the right to be wrong, of course.

Dave

I have the same issue on a couple of guitars. The B string always seems to sound different than the other 5. It always has a metalic harsh ring to it. I wish I could make it go away.

Somebody should do a scientific study on why the B string acts the way it does.

I'm with you. B string never sounds quite right to me. I find the Elixir B string particularly problematic, so much so that I often just buy single DR treble strings and throw away the Elixirs. Something about the anti-rust treatment, maybe.

JD

There are three separate and unrelated issues being discussed here.

The first is the Intonation issue Landru mentioned, which is why guitars never play scientifically "in tune." I've always liked Kevin Ryan's overview and Tempered Tuning method http://www.ryanguitars.com/NewsandEv...ning_Terms.htm, but there is also an entire Google-search world full of other good explanations.

The second is the "going out of tune" and "metallic ping" sound issue, which may be caused by several factors, including string balls not snug against the plate, a loose tuner, or an improper nut slot - which would account for both.

The third is the overall "sound" of the string. That one's a head-scratcher for me.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...chingHeada.jpg

I have been perplexed by this issue despite the scientific explanation because based on that explanation, you should have the issue all over the fretboard. To me, I only really notice a bothersome issue on the major D chord. And sometimes it seems worse than others on the same guitar.

What places me outside the realm of most people is that I find myself the happiest with that chord if I adjust the high E, rather than the B. I don't do this in general though because it messes up other chords, like the major E.

I think it does happen all over the fretboard, but our ears (or at least mine) don't notice it as much as we (they) do on specific strings at specific frets. It varies from guitar to guitar.

I too sometimes adjust the low E or the B depending on what key I'm playing in. The term I've heard for this is "sweetening" after tuning, which I first read about in a Norman Blake interview.

The aim of Tempered Tuning (see the Ryan link I posted earlier) is to do a little compromising on precise tuning to fool the ears into not hearing as much of the intonation. Some electronic tuners have this feature, which either slightly flats or sharpens the notes instead of tuning them true.

Intonation: the curse of stringed instruments.

I seem to have just the opposite reaction the to B string. I've found that one way I compare guitar "sounds" on an acoustic guitar is how the B string sounds (once in tune of course). I cannot describe what it is, but I can easily tell the difference between two different guitars based on picking that one string. There is more to it, of couse, but that's always been a good indicator to me. Weird, I know. :)

Huh. This isn't a problem I've ever had with a guitar. Maybe because my high-range hearing's been screwed up for years.

It's quite simple - the B string acts the way it does because it's EVIL....

If the B string had a face, it would look like this:

http://elizabethirreverent.files.wor...devil-head.gif


Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

Maybe because it's too close to B flat?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=7442915

;)

The B-string is special. You can't treat it like all the others especially if you use a pick. You can't beat on it or dig too deep with a pick without overstimulating it into making undesired very high-pitch harmonics. You must treat it with love and a more gentle handling and it will sing. The high E is that way too but not so bad unless you tune it down. Sometimes it's not the guitar but the player. It may help to use slightly higher gauge on the B if you are that type of player. If you think it's the guitar try moving the string to a different position. It may still do it.

The best pick zone to avoid the "ping" can be very narrow. For some picks it's very difficult for me to avoid it, others not so much.

My guitars are my teachers and they tell me that each string wants to be picked a little differently, you can't just whack at them all with the same force and release. You got to make love to them and the B string is the queen *****. She doesn't mind bare fingers but hates picks, so be nice.

P.S. That is not to say there aren't many other things that make a buzz but I believe the solids will "ping" or "rattle" if over- picked and it's worse with light strings and full length necks. Capo up a few frets and it goes away for me. It's also more obvious with a bright responsive guitar. A little ping actually perks up the dull thuddy ones.;)

Funny u should say that. I have the same problem. Ill tune my guitar with a tuner and my b string always sounts a lil off. I have gotten to where i just strum a g chord and tweak it till it sounds right.

I have trouble with the B string, particularly on a chord like D major. And when I check the tuning of the string, I often find that the B string is right on, but the G string or D string are slightly off. Particularly when the G and D strings are slightly flat, the B string when in tune can sound terribly wrong.

My interpretation is the equal temperament tuning is at fault, that in the key of D, for example, all the strings are really not accurately pitched for where ears want them to be. Very careful, accurate tuning of all the strings can help, but sometimes I cheat if I am playing in D and tune the B string very slightly flat.

For me, it's not the gauge of the string. I am perfectly happy with light gauge strings, though I understand that many players like the E and B strings to be a little thicker. I remember Howard Emerson telling us that he does this.

- Glenn

I've gotten so that if I think I need to check the tuning while playing, I'll check the B string first and I can't say it's more flat or sharp, it's just the first to be off - slightly, not a lot. Often it's the only string I have to adjust. This happened with both a Taylor 214 with Elixir Nano 80/20 lights and a Taylor GC3 with Elixir Nano 80/20 Lights and Two sets of Elixir Nano Phosphorous Bronze Lights. Like I said it's not very far out of tune one way or the other, just enough to notice.

Plus what Rythm said, I'll tune with a digital tuner, the two in my iPhone are different than my Korg and the New Snark agrees with the Korg but afterwards I'll tweek the B a little more by ear, hardly enough to change the needle on the tuner but to me its really noticable.

If I look at my Gibson SG funny, the B string goes flat

Before I got my Peterson virtual strobe tuner (which has a sweetened mode for tuning guitars), I used to tune my B and A strings a little flat and my low E a bit more flat (using a regular, non-tempered tuner). This seemed to give me the best compromise for overall playing.

As far as the B string sounding different, the most obvious reason is that it is different: it's plain steel. So why does it sound worse than the high E, which is also plain steel? My guess is because it's adjacent to a wound string. When you're playing scales or runs, most of the time you'll move from one string to the next. So, moving between the B and high E strings won't create a big change in sound (since they're both plain steel). However, moving between the B and G strings will, with the B string sounding thinner.

+1

Every guitar/string combo has its own "personality." If you get good music out of it, you learn to adjust to that personality. If not, you get a divorce. :lol:

I wonder how much GAS has been caused by the B string?

That looks brilliant. Surprised it was not done years ago. But must be expensive.

Thanks for the link to Kevin Ryan's article on Tempered Tuning for Guitar. Is there a way to apply the same techniques/theories to non-standard tunings such as DADGAD?

Scott

I know what you mean about that metalic ping. Yeah, the other issues that guys are (quite rightfully) mentioning are generally wrt intonation and stuff, but the G string is generally worse in that respect, particularly on the the G sharp when playing an E chord. There are lots of fixes including compensating nuts etc...

But yeah, I know what you mean about that metalic ping and I wish I knew the answer! Could be its nut slot cut too low, causing the open string to just touch the first fret when playing it hard, giving rise to that ring. Of course if the nut slot is too high, that will cause intonation issues as I have just said. String slot angle also has to be just right to get best tone and tuning stability.

The OP raised two issues with the B string, losing tune after a bend and pinging.

I think the out of tune condition after a bend is caused by insufficient pre-stretching. Music wire is heat treated steel, and therefore subject to some instability. A solution to the instability of new wire is to pre-stretch it slightly past the tension it will see in service. For example, if you intend to bend B up to C, then overtighten the string to C# on installation. This will make the wire more stable at tensions below C#.

The pinging is a high frequency overtone, and in the case of the B string, it is F#5 (the frequency of which happens to be 3/2 that of the open B). The fact is, all notes played on plain steel strings have higher overtones than wound strings because of the physical properties of plain steel wire. The brass or bronze wrap wire of wound strings is softer, and has higher mass, thereby damping the high overtones of its steel core wire. If you play a B as a fretted note on a wound string, there is ping, but not audible against the fundamental note. In an actual measurement, a B played at 4th fret of the G string measures -8 db, while the F#5 overtone measured -36 db. The open B also measured -8 db, but the F#5 overtone measured -11 db, nearly as strong as the fundamental B, and much stronger than the B3 subharmonic. I suspect the ping of the open B is the most noticeable of the steel string overtones because its naturally stronger F#5 overtone is getting further amplified by body resonance..

You can neither defeat nor ignore the laws of physics, so I think dangrunloh gave the only solution - pick it nicely.

Now that is an answer! Thanks ;-)

When plucking a string on a guitar (or other stringed instrument) the energy of the string has to transfer its energy to productive parts of the guitar. For this to happen, design, components, and quality and age of the wood is a factor. Here are some illustrative videos showing energy transfers. Sometimes some notes are notorious for being inefficient in transferring their energy to sound producing surfaces so there is a less desirable quality to the sound.

Frank Sanns

http://youtu.be/W1TMZASCR-I

http://youtu.be/KGfqW8LylBs