The Hunt For Great Portable PA Speakers
 

Hi Everyone, I've been working on trying to find some great speakers to complete my amplified setup. I've compared the QSC K12 and the CP12, and just don't love the sound of either. The K12 sounds fuller, more transparent and overall more pleasing to my ear than the CPs, but not as much as I was hoping for. Also, the fan noise in a quiet setting is distracting.

Some elements of the rest of my core chain and also the ways I am looking to use the setup:

Guitar: Greenfield G2 w/ dual source internal mic+K&K, through Sunnaudio MS-2, UAFX Golden Reverberator, into a soundcraft mixer.
Vocals - Neumann kms105

Using For:
small venue gigs
Home studio composing and practice
Large backyard "house" concerts w/ small acoustic ensembles occasionally including bass and percussion

I work for a university music dept at a venue that has a full Meyer house speaker system, uses schoeps and dpa mics, and has a fancy digital soundboard. So perhaps my ears are just used to all of that, but I'm not hearing anywhere near the same level sound reproduction out of any major manufacturer portable pa speakers I've heard on the market.

Thinking about trying Meyer's new X20 speakers, and our sound engineer mentioned also checking out RCFs which I'm not familiar with.

Anyone have any other suggestions beyond QSC, YAMAHA, Bose, EV, JBL, etc. ?

I used to have a pair of Bag End TA series speakers 25+ years ago and they were wonderful, but just way to massive to drag around all the time and take on and off stands. But everyone commented on the warm sound quality and clarity and detail.

I'll have to also think about floor monitors of some kind as well, but wanted to start with a plan for the mains first.

Thanks for any input you have.

Josh

Yamaha DZR would be worth a try. The 12s get rave reviews on Sweetwater's website. I'm happy with DBR and DXR. I just bought a DHR12M (coaxial wedge). The DZR is at the top of Yamaha's line: wood cabs, super high spl.

What model of soundcraft mixer are you using for Vox/guitar? If its analog that might be your weak point. A digital mixer with proper eq/dsp should improve your sound since you are using pretty high quality gear. Was the k12, series .2 version?

For acoustic performing wedge speakers I really like qsc k8.2 and Yamaha dxr10 speakers. If your on a budget the cp8 sounds great for indoor gigs but will not sound as good if pushed for outdoor gigs. Ive done hundreds of gigs and with my touchmix 8 and the speakers above always sound excellent. You may want to test out 8"-10" speakers vs. 12's. For example with qsc K series the pattern is wider(105 vs. 75) and sound better imo for acoustic performers when audiences are up close. Plus bigger speakers like 12-15 can sound muddy with vocals and require different eq/dsp settings.

If you really want the best then I would check out RCF speakers or the yamaha dzr's mentioned. Another important question is does weight matter to you? Because once you start looking at higher quality wooden enclosure speakers they weight inn at 40-50lbs each. If your doing home studio stuff I would buy some proper studio monitors. Although the k8.2 has a studio monitor dsp setting.

thanks for the responses everyone.

The version of the K12s I tried was indeed the newer .2 version.

The mixer I'm using is actually a solid state logic mixer not a soundcraft and its very clean in terms of the overall signal path, I use it for recording as well and I don't think this is the weak link.

It turns out a friend who is a distribution manager for a major retail distributor and has access to RCFs and Meyers so I am going to try both of those. He also suggested I try out the wood cabinet version of the K12s (KW122?).

So, hopefully this all puts me one step closer to deciding on a direction.

Thanks again.

Josh

Ref:

SoS review - DZR10

I just use one, a 10" JBL EON710 powered speaker.

Works fine, sounds good. I used it last summer at a garden party, and I didn't have to turn it up very far. It has some controls that only work via smartphone, so I don't bother with those.

If Meyer is your benchmark, all of the Yamaha/QSC/EV/Mackie/etc will leave you disappointed. I had an RCF and it was ok. It was not light years better than my K10.2. Also had a Red Sound, nice but again, still not like a proper array setup.

I looked at Meyer some time back. Iirc it tended to be expensive and heavy. I’m sure their neo stuff is lighter.

Fwiw I typically do solo gigs with a Henriksen Bud 10 - vocal mic in one channel, guitar in the other. It will not be anywhere near Meyer land, but a 21 lb amp with good eq may lead you to cut it a break. On the wrong side of 60, I’ll give up some sound quality for an easy/quick load in/out.

In my experience placement matters more than selection when comparing good quality powered speakers. I would make my selection on features and weight. Many years ago I did a thoroughly unethical ABC comparison by buying two new contenders with the intention of returning one of them and eBay-ing their predecessor (or returning both). With identical placement and full control of the source they all sounded about the same.

Out of carelessness or intent, Guitar Center is not set up for fair comparison. Add in observer bias and it’s hard for me to take their showroom seriously.

In the Gemini, Alto, Harbinger class, this advice doesn’t apply.

I’m a fan of JBL…..they have a warm sound that sounds more natural and pleasing to me…I use EON 10’s that don’t have the detail, power and punch of the QSC K12’s I used to own but they are much lighter and for solo or small ensemble gigs they’re great. Higher end JBL’s are that much better but considerably heavier and more expensive. But, they too have the overall sound profile I prefer.

live sound
 

I think I have the same thoughts on live sound as you do and have been through all the usual stuff. Certainly all that have been mentioned here.

They don't have much distribution in the US, but I discovered FBT speakers a while ago. Incredible sound, by far the best I've heard from portable speakers.

I usually use my guitar and vocals into my Yamaha Stagepass 200 and take the line out to a single FBT Jmaxx 114. Haven't had to use a pair of the FBT's as yet. You can get the speakers from Thomann, but couldn't listen first.

Jay

Josh,
You have some nice equipment sir. You cannot go wrong with Bose sound for your needs. At home and small events you will not do better.

Your ears have you trained (and spoiled!) to enjoy the super high-end tonal delight of a professionally installed and operated Meyer system. I know what you mean. My son is the sound man for our local opera house that hosts national acts and uses Meyer. I, too, was dissatisfied with the sound of just amps or even small PA's. They were okay but that lacked that... fullness.

Then we tried the EV30M and that was finally as close to that sound we were looking for in a small venue package. You just can't beat that separate sub and tower for creating a full soundscape with minimal equipment for smaller venues. Plus, no need for monitors. You could get away with an EV30 or EV50 for larger venues or outside if playing to any sort of crowd.

No need for the M versions with built in mixer if you just want to use the mixer you have so you'd save a little money. But the M versions are nice if you want to travel very light. We use nothing outboard of our EV30M. Two mics and my guitar plus a foot beat pedal, all plugged directly into the built-in mixer. Super easy transport and fast load-in, setup and load-out.

Your ears are beyond the best of what prosumer products can deliver. I love QSC speakers. You'll have to throw money at the problem with truly professional gear.

I have owned most of the usual suspects at some point. To my ears my Schertler Jam150’s are the most HiFi like for my taste. We gig with a pair of them and always get a great sound. The onboard effects are just ok…but it seemslike you have that covered in your rig. The 150’s have been discontinued for awhile but im sure the current equivalents could do the job.

Yes in terms of the analog Soundcraft mixer it is most likely well up to the task
Not to complicate things but at quality level you are mentioning You might see if Daedalus is still making the 803
However they are passive and need a good power amp to drive them
https://www.daedalusaudio.com/daedalusproaudio