Laurent,

Do you have a web site or pictures hosted somewhere that I can view your guitars? Would love to see...

Thanks Laurent. Not intending to hijack the thread, but do you have any idea how Tru-Oil compares with a varnish such as Ace Hardware Interior Oil Varnish, particularly in the "hardness" category?

Bill

Here is Laurent's website:

http://www.laurentbrondel.com/Site/Home.html

Hi Broadus. I'm not an expert but I have used Tru-Oil on two of my builds. I liked the ease of application (just wipe it on) and quick dry time. However it seems to take longer to toughen up. I have returned to using Behlen's Rockhard varnish on my builds because it provides a harder and more durable finish (I am currently finishing two OMs with Behlen's Rockhard). There is a longer dry-time required between coats (24 hours) with Behlen's but fewer coats are needed than Tru-Oil.

Simon,

Thanks for the link! I must say it is so cool to a simple lay-person like myself how significant the contribution by luthiers is to the AGF site.

Thank you for your participation, guys! And, I must say, you do exceptional work. I probably shouldn't have started following your links, folks, because it's now clear I'm *not* going to get any work done today at all! :D :D

Tru-oil is polymerized linseed oil. It was designed and marketed mainly as a finish for walnut gunstocks. I have not worked with it myself.

As I understand it, the linseed is heated to make the molecules join into long chains, similarly to what they do naturally over a long period of time. Because of this pre-polymerization, it will not penetrate as much as plain or "boiled" (not really boiled--it has chemical driers added) linseed, and will build to a thicker, harder film than linseed which is not pre-polymerized. So it behaves like a wiping varnish in its application, but the end result does not have the resin component, which gives oil varnishes--particularly the short-oil varnishes--additional hardness and toughness.

Thanks Simon!
The Ace Interior oil varnish (recommended by Bruce BTW) seems harder than Rockhard, itself harder than Tru-oil.
That being said, oil varnishes tend to harden and become tougher with age, and kind of self-polish if I may say. It's very organic.

I do not know if it's OK to post varnish-related links since I am not a sponsor here (John, delete the post if it's not…), but here is one finished with Ace interior oil varnish:
B-2
And one finished with Belhen's Rockhard:
A-2c
Notice the difference in colour, pics taken outside the same day (same light).

With apologies to OddManOut (because I fear I am really close to hijacking his thread if I'm not already completely guilty), let me ask this: If you have a guitar finished with Tru-Oil but down the road desire a harder varnish finish, how much trouble would it be to refinish the body, or can it even be done? Or, can an oil varnish finish be applied over the Tru-Oil?

Thanks,
Bill

I have a decent "workshop" grade viola that came with a fake-old finish (which I hate BTW but the sound was far better than any alternative I could find). The instrument was maybe six months old when I purchased it and it took, no kidding, at least two years to not feel as though there was a little bit of give in the varnish. And it has an almost imperceptible dent in the finish on the back where a wrinkle in the velvet inside its case pressed into it during a few months of storage. It also has a slightly sweet resin-y smell that is still detectable years later.

Does that sound like any of the oil varnishes you guys are talking about? Laurent, does the finish on your guitars get really, really hard after a few weeks or does it stay a bit wet feeling for a long time?

*OMO stomps his feet and puts on a big boo-boo face*

:D :D :D

No problemo. Indeed this is why I posted this thread...to stimulate discussion. :up:

I've got a customer insterested in a varnish finish so I've been experimenting on scrap with some. Let me first say, I don't believe the finish is going to be a major contributor tone wise unless it's way too thick. Some finishes are......easy to get too thick. I like the idea of a varnish finish because it's friendly to my health as well as the envoriment. On my scrap pieces the Tru oil isn't as hard as Rockhard. The hardest to ding finish I've tried is an oil based varnish made for hardwood floors. All of the pieces are sealed with shellac. To my eyes the Rockhard, and the hardwood floor finish looks the same. They've got an amber tint the tru-oil doesn't have. The Rockhard and the floor finish both seem to cure quicker than the Tru-oil. The tru-oil has a distinct look. It looks......like a gunstock. To me it looks thick, but it isn't.

I'm hoping others who know alot more about varnish (and other wood finishes) than me will weigh in on the floor varnish. I can tint it to my liking. I'm not sure about tinting Rockhard or Tru-oil though.
My Dad (a retired building contractor) recommended trying the floor finish.
I'm sure it's tough enough, and I think it will be good tonewise as long as it's thin.

FWIW, my normal finish is nitrocellouse lacquer. I've finished a couple with waterbased lacquer with good results but I'm waiting to see the long term durability. I spray my guitars in an automotive paint booth, and I have a climate controlled room at the body shop I let them cure in for 3 weeks. I'd like to be able to use some kind of finish I can do at my shop.

It doesn't feel wet at all, but the varnish remains a bit on the soft side for some time. Meaning it can dent easily, like very fresh lacquer. However it is kind of self-healing as superficial marks tend to disappear. IMO there's no better feeling on a neck than an oil varnish, even buffed it doesn't drag or feel sticky.
The oil varnish used by some violin makers is a total different beast, as I understand it they apply it much more thinned, almost water-thin, with many more coats and little leveling. It seems their varnish is usually longer in oil. I've seen what you refer to on some cellos and violins.

What floor finish is it?
Other varnishes used by some builders are Pratt&Lambert #38 and Behlen's Water White restoration varnish. I have both, but haven't tried them yet.

Interesting disscussion. I use Tru-oil on my ebony fret boards on my Larris every couple years after a good steel wool scrub followed by a light steel wool buff. I started with it years back (I think it was on a Gibby, or Fender I had when I came across it), on a recommendation to use a gun stock sealer over regular linseed oil. It doesn't stay tacky like linseed can, dries hard. I had no idea it could be used as a body finish.

I don't have it here, I'll look tonight and see what exactly it is.

I guess I'll weigh in here seeing that I am a big fan of Tru-oil, some may not be, but those that have used it, and have learned the proper way to apply it I'm sure think it is just about perfect for a guitars finish. While there are harder finishes to use, that doesn't mean it isn't a viable and sound finish for a guitar, a guitar moves and flexes much more than a bar top or hardwood floor, Tru-oil remains more flexible in my opinion and is less prone to cracking, and yellowing. Actually I've never seen Tru-oil crack and over the last dozen years or so I've used it on a variety of wooden items & quite a few guitars. It is primarily used on gunstocks and furniture to provide a lasting and durable finish that is easily repaired and maintained.
While not as hard as Behlen's Rock Hard, or some other varnishes, it has properties that I think belong to the guitar. And it makes a fine finish for a slick neck when buffed with steel wool.
When wiped on with a cloth in very light even passes, it builds very quickly and after only 5 or 6 coats, it begins to shine, no need to level sand or wear a respirator, and the finish becomes hard enough to play and keep playing after about 5 to 6 days, I typically allow about 45 minutes between coats at 65 to 70 degrees, and one of the nicest factors is if there is a discrepancy in the finish anywhere, a piece of dirt, scuff or scratch, simply sand the area and go back over it with no worries. I've not tried to tint the varnish, but rather I'll select an appropriate stain color and stain the woods, let dry for 24 hours and then start applying the Tru-oil.
I've had no problems with saturation on any hardwoods, and tops I simply seal first with pure egg whites allow to dry for about 2 hours and then sand with 400 grit, then apply the Tru-oil.
I still spray nitro and poly finishes, but for the look and feel I personally like, mine have a no fuss simple and light Tru-oil finish.