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-   -   Baritone 12 string? (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240506)

Andromeda 01-31-2012 11:11 AM

Baritone 12 string?
 
Since I am really into the baritone now I was wondering who makes a good baritone 12 string. I know Taylor's Leo Kottke model can be tuned to C# but does anyone else make a baritone 12?

drive-south 01-31-2012 11:29 AM

The answer is yes, and there are 2 flavors to choose from.

!2-string baritones based on the old Stella like the one Leadbelly played. These are 26.5 inch scale and designed to be tuned C# - C#. These are ladder braced and produce a very dry growl. These are available from several builders including Del Arte, Tod Cambio (Fraulini), Michael Hauver, Ralph Brown, and others.

Modern-style baritone 12's have X-bracing for a more balanced tone. One builder making these is Joe Veillette. I'm guessing that many custom builders would offer them as well. These would probably have a longer scale (27-29") and would be tuned A-A or B-B.

I'd love to play one, but I have a feeling I would tire quickly due to the heavy tension and the mass of the heavy strings.

mchalebk 01-31-2012 11:44 AM

I realize that most guitarists are not interested in carbon fiber instruments, but it might be worth considering for instruments like this. For instance, check out this Emerald 12-string baritone/bass, tuned E to E (an octave lower than standard with all octave courses). This video gives an idea of what this is capable of. I would think the 30.5" scale would be perfect for a typical baritone tuning.

Just something to think about.

blue 01-31-2012 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drive-south (Post 2918669)
I'd love to play one, but I have a feeling I would tire quickly due to the heavy tension and the mass of the heavy strings.

I no desire to play a twelve. The difference in size between the octaves and the fat strings sound like a nightmare. Wouldn't be a matter of tension in my mind buy of smushing your fingers down hard enough to fret the octaves. Love my 6, but no thanks on the 12 for me.

AtlJohn 01-31-2012 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue (Post 2918716)
I no desire to play a twelve. The difference in size between the octaves and the fat strings sound like a nightmare. Wouldn't be a matter of tension in my mind buy of smushing your fingers down hard enough to fret the octaves. Love my 6, but no thanks on the 12 for me.

Howdy blue -

You might try playin a 12 to see for yourself! I used to play one exclusively, and there are things i played flawlessly on it that i have no prayer of currently playing on a 6. The action is typically very low, and if somebody with my small hands who now plays a standard 1 11/16" neck could handle it, most anybody could.

Cheers,
-js

Neal 01-31-2012 01:42 PM

I've got a Dell'Arte, though it's only 26.5" scale. There's really no difference in comfort, even with heavy strings, when they're set up properly, my opinion anyway. You tune 3-4 steps below standard, so the tension is very comfortable.

When I got it, the dealer had put lights on and tuned it to standard. Now that was difficult and uncomfortable and sounded like poo.

They are lap pianos. Here's some eye candy (my opinion, of course)- the only sunburst Dell'Arte Leadbelly made.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...frontshine.jpg

And it's brother 12ers-
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...e/DSCN0134.jpg

blue 01-31-2012 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlJohn (Post 2918830)
Howdy blue -

You might try playin a 12 to see for yourself! I used to play one exclusively, and there are things i played flawlessly on it that i have no prayer of currently playing on a 6. The action is typically very low, and if somebody with my small hands who now plays a standard 1 11/16" neck could handle it, most anybody could.

Cheers,
-js

I've owned many standard 12s. It's the idea of a twelve with a .070 or greater low string I don't like.

Neal 01-31-2012 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue (Post 2918940)
I've owned many standard 12s. It's the idea of a twelve with a .070 or greater low string I don't like.

Don't knock it till you've tried it. Though in your case, you probably wouldn't want to run out and spend a few grand on one right now....

blue 01-31-2012 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal (Post 2918990)
Don't knock it till you've tried it. Though in your case, you probably wouldn't want to run out and spend a few grand on one right now....

Frankly it's not the cost, or my trepidation at the octaves. It's the whole 12 string thing! I'm so done with 12 strings. The tuning. The blood loss during string changes...:eek:

Kind of like red sports good. They look great... With other people driving them :D

Of course when I see one you KNOW I'm picking it up and giving it a go!

niko 01-31-2012 04:46 PM

Stella-like 12 string are wonderful imho.
Also look at Martin J12SO Sing Out 60th Pete Seeger, a 12 string with a 27.5 scale length :
http://tinyurl.com/87nd5vl

and for your listening pleasure :
Doug Young - 12-String Yamamoto Baritone - Solo Guitar
http://youtu.be/k4wcqyoBkp4

Nicolas

Neal 01-31-2012 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue (Post 2919001)
Frankly it's not the cost, or my trepidation at the octaves. It's the whole 12 string thing! I'm so done with 12 strings. The tuning. The blood loss during string changes...:eek:

Kind of like red sports good. They look great... With other people driving them :D

Of course when I see one you KNOW I'm picking it up and giving it a go!

I hear you on that. I played uke pretty much exclusively for 6 years, played that tricone in the pic above, and.....
Sometimes it only takes one thing. Just one thing to tip you over the edge, and that was it for me.

Neal 01-31-2012 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niko (Post 2919004)
Stella-like 12 string are wonderful imho.
Also look at Martin J12SO Sing Out 60th Pete Seeger, a 12 string with a 27.5 scale length :
http://tinyurl.com/87nd5vl

and for your listening pleasure :
Doug Young - 12-String Yamamoto Baritone - Solo Guitar
http://youtu.be/k4wcqyoBkp4

Nicolas

Nicolas, that 12 Doug Young is playing is totally different tonally from my Dell'Arte, both so beautiful, but different. He's got 2 inches on me. I wonder what strings he's using.

Mycroft 01-31-2012 08:27 PM

One of those "got away" instruments was a Franklin Stella-style 12 string from the late 80s. 26.75 scale, and tuned down to C-C. It had the trapeze tailpiece, which takes the stress off the top and allows for lighter bracing. Great instrument. I'll bet that he still makes it. Froggy Bottom also does a Stella style, designed in conjunction with Paul Geremia

And if you can find one, Lance McCollum made a hell of a Baritone 12.

TW

drive-south 02-03-2012 10:04 AM

There was also some Stella-style instruments built by Nick Kukich (Franklin Guitar Co). I played one at Mandolin Bros store a few years ago. It was slightly different from the other offerings as it had a solid peg head with enclosed tuners and pin bridge. He made no attempt to recreate the Stella purfling design or build an accurate copy of Leadbelly's guitar.

For someone looking for a more modern instrument, the Veillette offerings are the cat's meow! One of Joe's specialties is making unique instruments like the Gryphon, Terzilla, and baritone 12.

http://www.veilletteguitars.com/index.shtml

Joe is somewhat of an Energizer Bunny in that he is always innovating.

tadol 02-03-2012 10:36 AM

Definitely should look at the Yamamoto - he had a fan-fret baritone 12 string at Healdsburg that was extremely nice -


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