Can I extend my current system?
 

I am currently playing through an Acoustic AG60 amp with one mic and one guitar. I love the sound I can produce, but I need to get louder for bigger venues. Can I add and extension cab to my current amp or maybe a powered speaker? Or do I need to move to a full PA system. Cost is certainlly an issue. I need to be able to do this in the most affordable way.

What does the owner's manual for your amp say about an extension speaker?

http://www.acousticamplification.com...G60-Manual.pdf

You have a Line Out on the back panel, so you can use that to connect to a powered speaker. The Line Out is not controlled by the front panel Master Level but is instead adjusted by the back panel control. It will take some experimenting with gain staging, but it should work just fine.

Fran

As I said in your original thread (the one with the $250 budget), this will work fine. Just get the best powered speaker you can afford and run it from the XLR line out in the back of the amp. I can't tell from the manual if the line out is pre or post EQ and effects, but I assume it's post or they'd probably be careful to say something about it. In other words it will probably send both channels with whatever EQ and effects settings you like directly to a powered speaker (or to a mixer), bypassing the internal power amp and its volume control. As Fran notes, it has its own volume control on the back of the amp. In any case, you'll figure out the pre/post thing as soon as you hook it up. It will be obvious either way.

You can use the powered speaker for the room and the amp itself as a stage monitor, or you could use them both for the room if you need to. Or you could get two powered speakers and chain them together and still reserve the amp itself for monitoring. Try it out at a store with a couple of different powered speakers and see how you like it! This is certainly the simplest way to transition from amp alone to PA, especially if you like your amp and can get a speaker you like for a price you can pay. The amp would be your combination mixer/effects unit/and a monitor or small secondary power amp/speaker. The powered speaker you buy will be your main power amp and speaker.

If it goes well, and you decide you want more power and more nuanced control, you can upgrade later to a good small mixer. In fact, if the gigs go well and you learn more about what works for you sound-wise and what you want and what's poosible, there's no end to the upgrade possibilities--cash allowing, of course!

Louis

Thanks for all the help guys! I'm debating on whether to go with just a powered speaker or save up for a while and get a powered mixer and set of pa speakers. I think I will take my amp to the store and see if a powered speaker sounds good with my amp. If it does, I think this will be the way to go for now.

Well, I just traded my AG60 for a Yamaha 300x300 powered mixer. So now I need speakers. I still have the same $200 budget... whats your thoughts?

Assemble more $$. Get a decent pair of passive PA speakers and speaker stands to mount them.

What would you consider a decent pair of speakers?

I'm not quite sure. I use a pair of passive speakers in my mini-PA setup for solo acoustic. I've used them for many years, like them and haven't been investigating other passive speakers very much. I do know that there can be a big difference in the quality of speakers and $200 will not go very far.

Here's a retailer of passive PA speakers:

Passive PA Speakers

My amp is 300x300... what size speakers should I get? I've read that you should have more watts coming from your amp than the speakers take. Is this right?

Others may be able to give you a more technical answers to your questions, and people are of course welcome to correct anything that I’ve gotten wrong, but here’s what I have gathered in my own research and shopping over the past couple of years:

Also it's worth doing some reading as you go about this process, and here's a good place to start:

http://www.yorkville.com/default.asp?p1=6&p2=0&p_id=1

In the meantime here are a few basic guidelines in layman's terms (the kind I myself understand best):

You want to avoid two things: 1) you don't want deliver too much power to your speakers (you don’t want them to blow when you turn your amp up high or when there’s a sudden increase in volume in the music or due to a stage accident), and 2) you don't want to have an amp that is so weak that it needs to be turned up way too high to get the volume you need for your loudest gig and goes into clipping or distortion. This can actually damage both your speakers and your amp.

I assume that your mixer is the EMX312. According to the specs. on the Yamaha website, each of the two amps in the mixer deliver 300 watts into 4 ohm speakers and 190 watts into 8 ohm speakers. This means that into each of these kinds of speakers the amp can push a maximum of 300 or 190 watts before it starts to distort. This also usually means that it can push more than that when a sudden surge of sound signal drives it to clipping.

“Ohm” is a term used for the measure of impedance—the amount of resistance the current meets, in this case as it either leaves your amp or enters your speaker. This is a complicated matter, and I don’t understand it all technically, but what you need to know is pretty simple in this case: Most of the passive speakers you are going to encounter shopping will be 8 ohm speakers. This means that if you run one of these speakers off of each of the two amps in the EMX312, it's 190 watts, not 300 watts that you will be sending into each of the speakers. If you're going to use one of your two amps for each of two, 8 ohm speakers, you will need speakers that can handle at least 190 watts without blowing, and you’ll want them actually to be able to handle more than that in case your signal does go past that mark when the amp clips.

You can also “daisy chain” your two speakers and run them off of one amp, using the other amp to power a passive monitor. In this case, the 8 ohm rating for one speaker becomes a 4 ohm rating for the pair. The amp will now send its full 300 watts before distortion to both speakers at the same time (one speaker cable goes from amp to one jack in the back of one speaker, and another cable goes from the other jack in the back of that speaker to a jack in the back of the other one). Each speaker will now be running on half of the wattage they now share, so each will be running on 150 watts.

When you look at the power ratings for speakers you will often see 3 numbers, each one often roughly twice the previous one, these unfortunately have different names, but the one you want to pay attention to is the middle one, usually called “program” power. You may need to do some reading on the speakers you're considering to make sure that you understand the numbers, and that the advertised rating from the manufacturer is reliable. You want your speakers’ “program” power—the middle number—to be about 150% to 200% of what the amp will put into it before distortion. So, in this case, with 8 ohm speakers, you’ll want to look for speakers rated for about somewhere between 300-400 watts program power, give or take a bit depending on other factors. If the speakers are well designed and efficient, a rating in that range should cover you both ways with the EMX312. You should be able to get enough volume whether you plug one speaker into each amp or run two off of one amp. Although watch it if you find you’re turning the amp up very high to get the right volume, especially when you’re daisy chaining. This will cause the amp to distort, and that can damage your speakers, even if the power is nowhere near the sort of peak wattage that would blow them the other way. If you have to turn up like that in a given venue, it means you need a more powerful system for that venue. With such a rating you should also be pretty safe from blowing your speakers from too much power at reasonable volumes (a speaker rated at 300 watts “program” power can usually take up to twice that in sudden bursts, often called “peak” power).

For example, the Yamaha BR12 speakers (inexpensive, entry-level speakers) are rated at 300 watts program and 600 watts peak; the BR15s are rated at 400 and 800, and these speaker models are both designed to be used with a powered mixer like the EMX312. I’m not recommending these speakers in particular—I don’t think they sound all that great, myself—but it’s an example of a rating that is compatible with your powered mixer.

I hope that helps.

Louis

Louis, WOW! Thats what I call a helpful reply, Thank you can everyone else for your help. I think I have a real good idea of what I need now.

Thanks again!

You're welcome! A couple of years ago, I was full of the same questions, and some very helpful and patient folks here and on some other lists helped me sort it all out. I still have a lot of questions, as I learn how to best use the equipment I finally bought. There's a lot to think about and understand about sound reinforcement, and mastering the craft of it to the point that it enhances the musical experience is not unlike mastering your instrument--an ongoing process, for sure.....

I'd also recomment paging through threads on the following discussion lists. You can learn a lot just following conversations and checking out some of the stickies:

Check out the "Live Sound and Production" and "Acoustic Guitar" forums here:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/

The "Recording/Live Sound" and "Acoustic Instrument" forums here:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php

The "Sound Reinforcement and Recording" forum here:

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/

And the "Junior Varsity" forum here:

http://www.soundforums.net/live/forum.php

This other site seems to have slowed down a lot lately, and many of the people who used to hang there are now over at some of the others, but there's still a lot of information to be gleaned from old threads in the "Lab Lounge":

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php#c1

Happy reading, good luck shopping, and have fun testing, learning and, above all, playing!

Louis