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-   -   Thinking about removing K&K (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476600)

Wooly 07-16-2017 09:13 AM

Thinking about removing K&K
 
I have a K&K mini installed in my Larrivee OM-03 and it just doesn't sound right. I run it through a Fishman Loudbox Mini. I tried using a K&K XLR preamp, a Beringer ADI 21 and with no preamp at all. So far the Beringer sounds the best but it's still not right to me. Too much mids and bass. Sounds wompy with a lot of overtones. I have checked installation and eveything looks good.

I have a Seagull SWS mini jumbo with a K&K mini in it and it sounds great. I have a Alvarez AP70 with a JJB pickup in it and it sounds great. I even have a cheap Yamaha all laminate with a JJB in and it sounds pleasing. I don't think this particular guitar is meant to have this design of pickup in it.

So, I am seriously thinking about removing this K&K and replacing it with something else. I really don't want a sound hole pickup but I don't want to break the bank either. Maybe around $200.00 give or take. I would like to keep it passive also if possible.

Suggestions??

Johnny.guitar 07-16-2017 09:23 AM

I'm curious as I'm considering removing the k&k from my Gibson....and would like to install a Trance audio. But getting the k&k out without damage is not going to be easy

SpruceTop 07-16-2017 09:31 AM

After removal of a K&K system, and prior to installing a Trance Amulet system, you'll have to remove any residual superglue on and impregnated within the bridgeplate by sanding it away with 100-grit to 150-grit sandpaper. Just how deep the superglue has penetrated the bridgeplate may vary depending on whether the bridgeplate is maple or rosewood and how much superglue was applied when installing the now removed K&K transducers. Trance Audio tends to discourage mounting their Amulets on previously superglued bridgeplates but I think enough sanding would remove any residual superglue and enable a successful Trance installation.

SpruceTop 07-16-2017 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny.guitar (Post 5409668)
I'm curious as I'm considering removing the k&k from my Gibson....and would like to install a Trance audio. But getting the k&k out without damage is not going to be easy

Applying enough nail-polish remover to the transducer area of the bridgeplate facilitates intact removal of the K&K transducers. Some AGF folks have done it and can better comment on K&K removal than I can and will likely offer their advice here.

martingitdave 07-16-2017 10:00 AM

Trance after K&K is not an installation for an novice. The amount of material you have to remove is substantial. SpruceTop (as usual :-)) is correct. I really like the Trance system, but it is best on a virgin bridge plate. Also, the Trance, although the best analog system available, is still not a panacea. It sounds better than the K&K, but can be very fussy to install and perfect the placement. You might need to first try a different preamp system, or borrow the Tonedexter, if you know anyone who has it. I didn;t care for the K&K preamp.

Wooly 07-16-2017 10:18 AM

Seems like my thread got hijacked??

Guest4562 07-16-2017 10:38 AM

I came to the same conclusion about the K&K and decided to go with the Baggs M80, which has proven to be a good choice for my needs. I had considered keeping the K&K in place and installing another output jack on the instrument, but ultimately decided that I would not be using the K&K at all. So I simply cut the wires, leaving the transducers in place. I'll consider having them removed completely should the need arise.

You have indicated that a sound hole pickup is not for you. If you elect a UST in lieu of other options, there might be room to install it around the K&K transducers left in place depending upon the brace location.

akafloyd 07-16-2017 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooly (Post 5409729)
Seems like my thread got hijacked??

Yes...

Except for magnetic sound hole pickups I think most passive types are going to be sound board transducers similar to the K&K. Dazzos might be a good option but it sounds like installation can be fussy. From what I read sound board transducers seem to have a lot of common sonic qualities and users seem to like them in general or not, much like any type of pickup. I'm inclined to lean more toward dual source systems where some compensations can be made regarding a single source weakness. Unfortunately, it won't be passive unless you add the mic to your existing K&K and an appropriate outboard blender.

I hope this helps

Petty1818 07-16-2017 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martingitdave (Post 5409705)
Trance after K&K is not an installation for an novice. The amount of material you have to remove is substantial. SpruceTop (as usual :-)) is correct. I really like the Trance system, but it is best on a virgin bridge plate. Also, the Trance, although the best analog system available, is still not a panacea. It sounds better than the K&K, but can be very fussy to install and perfect the placement. You might need to first try a different preamp system, or borrow the Tonedexter, if you know anyone who has it. I didn;t care for the K&K preamp.

Follow the recommended jig installation method. I did not find the Trance difficult to install at all and I am pretty new to installations. I previously had the tru-mic from the Lyric and Anthem on the bridge plate and never cleaned it prior to installing the Trance. I feel that only the K&K would leave enough residue to cause an issue.

I do find it odd though that over the years, K&K have never looked into a different form of adhesive to attach their pickups. I would probably put more of them in instruments if they did not require glue. To me that process of installation is about as out of date as the barn door, side controls.

Mbroady 07-16-2017 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martingitdave (Post 5409705)
Trance after K&K is not an installation for an novice. The amount of material you have to remove is substantial. SpruceTop (as usual :-)) is correct. I really like the Trance system, but it is best on a virgin bridge plate. Also, the Trance, although the best analog system available, is still not a panacea. It sounds better than the K&K, but can be very fussy to install and perfect the placement. You might need to first try a different preamp system, or borrow the Tonedexter, if you know anyone who has it. I didn;t care for the K&K preamp.

I had a K&K installed in my D-18. It is the only guitar I thought did not sound good with the K&K. When I checked out the install with a mirror it looked like there were gobs of glue - Hack Job. Probably why it sounds like poo.

So if what you are saying is true, and it makes sense, then replacing the bridge plate would be the best option, which I am sure is not cheap.

JLS 07-16-2017 01:15 PM

You might try removing just the center transducer.

JLS 07-16-2017 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818 (Post 5409862)
Follow the recommended jig installation method. I did not find the Trance difficult to install at all and I am pretty new to installations. I previously had the tru-mic from the Lyric and Anthem on the bridge plate and never cleaned it prior to installing the Trance. I feel that only the K&K would leave enough residue to cause an issue.

I do find it odd though that over the years, K&K have never looked into a different form of adhesive to attach their pickups. I would probably put more of them in instruments if they did not require glue. To me that process of installation is about as out of date as the barn door, side controls.

Strong coupling with the top via the bridgeplate is PARAMOUNT for SBTs.

JLS 07-16-2017 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpruceTop (Post 5409680)
Applying enough nail-polish remover to the transducer area of the bridgeplate facilitates intact removal of the K&K transducers. Some AGF folks have done it and can better comment on K&K removal than I can and will likely offer their advice here.

Superglue debonder is way superior to nail polish remover.

Petty1818 07-16-2017 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLS (Post 5409941)
Strong coupling with the top via the bridgeplate is PARAMOUNT for SBTs.

I agree. However, I am not sure what part of my post you are commenting on? If it's the point about K&K and a different adhesive instead of glue, I would argue that Trance uses tape that works well so not sure why K&K can't do the same.

SpruceTop 07-16-2017 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLS (Post 5409943)
Superglue debonder is way superior to nail polish remover.

Nice Performance and superglue removal advice!


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