Solo folk-punk looking for basic amplification explanations!!!
 

Hey guys! I play one-man acoustic music which I call The Rebel County (www.myspace.com/craigneedles)... Please be patient with me because I play and write songs I am extremely proud of, but when it comes to acoustic amplification, I don't know a single thing! I'm looking to play as many shows as possible this Summer but I need to figure a lot of stuff out about all of this first... I know there are a lot of discussions on here about this topic, but again, I need the complete basics!

First of all, I'm a 20-year-old college student on a verrry low budget. I've been told that it would be best to buy a PA, not an acoustic amp. Here's my first question: Is it possible to just get one powered speaker, use a small Behringer mixer I already have, and get both decent vocal and guitar sound through just that? Also, does it all just hook up with guitar cables?

Which leads me to my next question: Most places I will be playing probably have their own PA... So, how exactly do I hook up to a house PA? Does the guitar cable go from my guitar straight to the soundboard/mixer and that's pretty much it? Basically, when I'm playing a venue with a PA, do I pretty much just show up with my guitar and a guitar cable and nothing else? Also, if the soundboard/mixer happens to be far from the stage, how does that work?

I may have some more follow-up questions, as this was typed pretty fast. Again, I apologize for my stupidity on the topic, but I've been playing electric guitar and bass in bands my whole life, so this solo acoustic stuff is new to me. Thank you in advance for all your help!!!

If it's just you on vocals and guitar, then i think an acoustic amp would be best... especially since many have 2 inputs (sometimes more) specifically for that reason.

I'd suggest looking into a Carvin AG100 or their S400 stagemate (compact 4 channel PA mixer/speaker in a single enclosure).

As for playing with a house PA, most acoustic amps will have a line out, so you could just bring that and tell the house sound guy to use the line out to the house PA. otherwise, you probably ought to get a direct box (DI).

If you do that, you are pretty much duplicating what an acoustic amp does. An acoustic amp is basically a limited PA in an easy-to-carry, guitar amp shape. Many have effects and everything built right in.
If all your connections are 1/4", the answer is yes, but qualified. If the powered speaker has an XLR connector, it's another matter. The best thing to do is check the connectors you have and pull out the manuals and find out whether the 1/4" connectors in question are balanced, tip-ring-sleeve line-level connectors or unbalanced, tip-sleeve 1/4" guitar-level connectors.
If you have the typical acoustic guitar with built-in under-saddle pickup and 1/4" jack, you typically go into a regular PA via a direct box and blanced mic cable, to change your high-impedance, unbalanced guitar signal fed out a 1/4" jack to a low-impedance balanced guitar signal fed into an XLR cable. Typically, if the mixer is away from the stage, they will have a snake or a set of cables to reach the stage. The beauty of low impedance via XLR is that you can run 250' without significant signal degradation. With an unbalanced signal, just like an electric guitar, you are only good for 15-20' before you get degradation.

Bob

Edit: basically ditto on the acoustic amp.

The problem with buying a PA with a very low budget is then you have a very low budget PA! I started playing out when I was a 19 year old college student. I borrowed $500 and bought a very cheap little Crate PA system (powered mixer and two speakers and later added a monitor) the problem is, when it comes time (and it will) to upgrade, you will probably have to upgrade the whole thing. I did that, many, many times!

If I was starting over, knowing what I know now, I would do one of two things. 1) go big right away and buy a Bose L1 system with at least 1 B1 (sub) Here is their website:

http://www.bose.com/controller?event...ians/index.jsp

That would be something you could use just about everywhere, indoors, outdoors, noisy bars, festivals, etc. and if you were playing in a place with a house system, you could run a line out and use it as a monitor to hear yourself. If this is not a route you can take, and it sure wouldn't have been for me when I started, my number 2) suggestion would be an acoustic amp.

Basically that would be your powered speaker and you wouldn't need your Behringer mixer. You would plug your guitar into one channel, your mic into the other and you'd be set to go. The reason a good acoustic amp is a valuable piece of gear is that it can grow with you.

If you buy a nice one now, you could put that up on a little stand and use it to play small venues, coffeeshops, bookstores, small outdoor patios, etc. If that is not enough, you could get another powered speaker, put that on another stand take a line out of your amp and now you have a mini PA. If you go to a venue that has a house system, you could still run your guitar and mic into the amp send a line out to the house mixer and use your amp as a monitor.

If you eventually decide that you do need to buy a big PA, your acoustic amp could still act as your monitor, you could use it as a preamp for your guitar, and you would still have your trusty amp for those occasions where you play through a house system. All in all, a good acoustic amp is a very versatile piece of gear. And if you are on a low budget and you are going to put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak, I'd opt for something that is the most functional and versatile.

This would depend on what you got and how you are trying to hook it up. Depending on the speaker you would probably run your vocals and guitar into the Behringer and if there are pan controls on the channels, pan both the vocals and the guitar hard left and take a "main mix" left line out to the speaker. Something like that but again it depends on the gear.


You could just bring your guitar and a cable and be done with it. I depends on how much control you want over your own sound, the kind of system you are playing through and who is running that system. I would usually bring my guitar, a 1/4" cable and my Baggs Para Acoustic DI box.

(http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products...s_paradi.shtml)

That box allows you to make some changes to your guitar sound from the stage and send a balanced signal to the board. If the mixer/board is far from the stage there will usually be what's called a snake on the stage. The snake is a bunch of inputs with a long thick cable that leads to the board.

This is again where an acoustic amp comes in handy. You can again, run your vocals and guitar into the amp, take one (or two depending) XLR (mic cable) line out of the amp and into the board. Tilt your amp back and use it as a monitor and let the sound person control the front of the house (main speakers)

Sorry for the long post. Hope some of it helps

Matt

Matt:
Thank you so much for your post. It's ok that it was long, because my original post was pretty long too haha

From what you said, it sounds like I may be going for an acoustic amp. It will probably be more expensive than just one powered speaker, but in the end, it sounds like it will serve me much better. And it sounds a lot less complicated.

Just to make sure I have everything straight...

An acoustic amp would be the same as having a powered speaker and a mixer. I could just set that up easily to play small venues with no PA. In a venue with a PA, I plug my guitar and microphone into my amp, and then I need to buy an XLR mic cable to connect to the soundboard. For a soundboard that is far away, there will be a snake (which basically has microphone inputs) that (again) the XLR cable plugs into. So all I really need to buy is an acoustic amp and an XLR cable?

seems so.....

just a thought, fwiw,....i did go to your site to see what you were up to...interesting and energetic..i like it:)....that said, "punk" is/was a response to commercialization and to some degree a shunning of many "conventions" for a more "pure" force. so, whatever you find brings you closest to your medium with the fewest possible contrivances all the better. ..a good acoustic amp with a separate voice "in", a good mike to get all the sound and, voila,...you're living the dream..;)..enjoy and have fun!

Cool, thanks Paul! I wasn't sure if just mic-ing the amp was recommended at all, but it's good to know that it works well! It's good to know I have other options.

Here's another question for anyone. If I buy an acoustic amp to use for vocals and guitar in small venues, what would you recommend? Considering I am trying to stay on as low of a budget as possible, how many watts should I be looking at to be able to play small venues with no PA (record stores, coffee shops, etc...)? Thanks everyone!!

Thank you for checking my stuff out!! I'm glad you like it... I'm so proud of it. I've spent so much time recording, and now it's time to take it to the stage, which is why I'm asking all these stupid questions haha... I totally agree with you though. I am looking to keep things as simple (and cheap) as possible. I just want my sound amplified in an easy and basic, but still effective, way. So you also think I should just go with an acoustic amp? It seems that would be the most useful, simple, and versatile. I asked this above, but what size and wattage might you suggest? Again, considering my budget haha...

I think so but go and try them out. Find a store with many options and bring your guitar and you mic and see what you think. I think that would be a good place to start as far as gear is concerned. It is very simple to set up and operate and it is very versatile.


An acoustic amp is pretty much the same as having a powered speaker with a mixer. I have a Fishman Loudbox 100 and it has two channels plus an Aux input that you could use for a CD player for break music, etc. but that Aux input only has a volume control, no EQ knobs. So basically, my Loudbox 100 is a combination of a two channel mixer and an 8" speaker with a horn.

You could go and buy a monster of a powered speaker, hook up your Behringer mixer and you would have something much bigger than any acoustic amp you could buy but yes, basically an acoustic amp is a powered speaker with a small mixer.

As for the XLR cable, most of the time, where there is a house system, there will be an XLR cable laying around. I'm the kind of guy that likes to bring everything I might need and then some so I would come prepared with an XLR cable. I can't speak for all amps but my Fishman has two options for Outputs. I can take 1 XLR cable and run out of what is called the Main Mix DI. That would basically be sending, to one channel of the board, exactly what is coming out of the amp. So if I turned up the Hi's on my vocals on my amp, you would hear that adjustment through the house system. Which could be good or could be bad. Depends on the house system, engineer, etc.

My amp also has Outputs that are Pre EQ, meaning I'm sending an un-EQ'd signal, separately out of each channel. You could use these if the house system had a sound engineer you trusted. You could adjust the settings on the amp the way you want, send two XLR cables to two separate channels on the board and the engineer would make the adjustments they need for the main speakers. Again, versatility!

So I think an acoustic amp would be a great thing to have. My only concern for you would be whether an acoustic amp would be "enough" for the shows where you are responsible for your own sound. Only you can answer that and your needs will change over time. But I would cast my vote for a nice acoustic amp over a cheap PA and then you could add an extension speaker from that acoustic amp if needed.

Take care,
Matt

man, there are loads of really fine amps out there. i use a fender acoutisonic jr. , and older one with no bells or whistles..works fine at 30 watts, i believe and it can be gotten used for around 3 bills, maybe less these days...very simple and accurate reproduction of what you put in.it does have a "send" for sending to a p.a. which is helpful at times but, miking the amp works well, too...all in all, a very simple , basic and "frilless" amp but, of good tone , character and value.

If you ask what amp you should get around here you will get a ton of posts suggesting an Ultrasound. People love them. I never tried one. As stated above, I bought a Fishman Loudbox 100. Tons of features, lots of power, great sound and all in a very small package. (For the Ultrasound folks, I needed a headphone jack that would mute the main speaker of the amp (again, versatility) and Ultrasound doesn't offer that otherwise they would have been a top contender.)

Again, I'd take my guitar and my mic to a music store and set up shop! Compare them all and have fun doing it! Be careful to to skimp on the features, inputs, outputs etc. If you decide to go this route, my advice would be to get one that you are going to want to keep for a while.

Matt

Thanks guys! From looking around, it seems I have to spend at least 300 on an amp. Anything that is a dual speaker, 80-100 watts or whatever is at least that even on eBay. Most are up in the 500 range. I assume I wouldn't want anything less than this, right?

Reb...just to add to what has already been said, for quick easy setup for solo gigs I would give the Fender Acoustasonic Jr., non-DSP model a +++. You can pick a used one up very reasonable and to me it has the warmest tone of many acoustic amps I've tried. Acoustic amps tend to be a bit harsh and nasaly to my ears but not the Fender. That will get you through a solo gig with no PA fine. Personally I prefer a PA but that might cramp your budget which you didn't say what that was.

For places with a house PA, soundman etc. you might want a decent DI box ala Baggs PADI and go into the PA with that. They will have a vocal mic setup already. You just need to interface the guitar with the board. If your guitar already has an onboard pre-amp you may not even need the PADI. Your preference. I would steer clear of trying to mic the amp and not expect feedback issues. I'm also not a fan of line-outing to a PA if there's a good sound man there. Hope this helps.

Jim B

Thanks Jim! So would you also would suggest an amp instead of just buying a powered speaker to use with the mixer I already have? Considering that I'm really trying to keep things as cheap as possible and I know acoustic amps are pretty expensive... I'm still not sure what to do. If I bought a powered speaker and used it with my mixer, would I still be ok while playing at a venue with a PA? Basically, a place with no PA: bring my one speaker and mixer and I'm good. A place with a PA: show up with my guitar and cable and that's it? Again, if the soundboard is far from the stage, I guess I need an XLR cable but without an amp to line-out from, how does that work? Also, my guitar does have a pre-amp, so I don't need a DI box? I'm sorry if I keep asking the same questions, but I'm trying to really figure out the best and cheapest option... as well as how everything actually works haha So thanks man!