Blueridge BR-70AS ... Adirondack / Brazilian?!
 

Guys...ive seen some Blueridges lately that have called my attention... the first one i saw was the BR-160A ... wich had Adirondack ... i was totally impressed, since i thought Adi was a very expensive high end top wood (correct me if im wrong please)... the price was about XXX, no more than 3 digits... but today i visited Maurys Music, i entered in the Blueridge section and i saw this "line" if may call it like that... that all of them have Adi tops... and this model Blueridge BR-70AS even has "Brazilian Rosewood" b/s ... this sounds like the specs from a suuuper high end Martin, it doesnt looks bad at all to be honest... looks good to me... any thoughts in sound... does it makes justice to the adi/braz combination? thanks!

You might want to check out Maurysmusic.com He has short video clips up there that compare several Blueridge models with the equivalent Martin models. I gotta say I can't really tell the difference.

Just to clarify, the BR-70AS has laminate b/s. Given that, you might not compare it to a "super high end Martin", but I'm sure it is an amazing guitar just the same.
I have a BR-160A-2 which is a custom model of the BR-160A. I wrote a short review of it on the UBGF (blueridge forum) under the name "harmonic soul".
I have had this guitar for almost two months. One way to describe it's sound would be addictive. Lately, when I'm not playing it, I hear it playing in my head. My other guitars have never done that to me. There is something special about this axe.
I would recommend a Blueridge if you don't like parting with good money without just cause. You can check out the reviews at Harmony Central on Blueridge, there are some experienced players of both Martin and Blueridge who have left very well written reviews.

The BR-70's are wonder guitars with really great value. I'd be afraid to hear one with red spruce for a top. ;)

I spoken to several US luthier friends. They all say that the "Brazilian" used on this is a laminate of Jacaranda. I understand this to be another type of rosewood. Alvarez used to ship a lot of Jacaranda b/s guitars. Beautiful, none the less.

You'll see Blueridges get slammed on a lot of guitar forums as cheap Martin knock-offs. Well, I've owned one of these "knock-offs" for four years now and I absolutely love it. As a matter of fact, I've attempted to replace my BR-160 with a "real" guitar a couple of times and simply cannot find a guitar anywhere near it's price range that sounds anywhere near as good.

Simply put, go check out the new 'ridges that've caught your eye-- try out as many as you can. I bet you'll be amazed how great they are for the money involved.

Blueridges are Martin knockoffs - they also use banned Cities wood , which i wouldnt buy-- Brazilian is a fantastic guitar wood but the chinese goverment doesnt follow international regulations on using banned materials ( New growth BR )- plus a few other thoughts - they are braced very lightly with thin tops , thats why they sound good-- lets see how they look and play 20 years from now with constant tension -- i dont trust them ... Buy something of quality not from China, in the long run you will be alot happier -- Their is also questions about slave labor in China - or should i say human rights violations ! You can get phenominal sounding guitars for not alot of dough ( that are not Chinese ), Id put my Larrivee OMv60 up against any Blueridge guitar - seriously !

Stockard
 

Blueridge,and a few other companies are making "good" sounding guitars available to people at a price that is affordable for a lot more of us. I am grateful for that. If you already own a "good" sounding guitar that casts a lot more-it's kinda like finding out that your kids Nissan performs just as well as your Cadillac. Progress sometimes brings mixed feelings.

Peace

512 Taylor
355 Taylor
D35 12 s Martin
Ibanez (75) Dred
Epiphone Masterbilt
Box of Suzuki Harps

Ever had a blueridge in your hands? I own a Br160. dam fine guitar. dam fine qaulity. never owned a larrivee so no comment on them. you can get slave labor right here in our very own united states. hell why dont we just invade china and straighten them out. write george a letter he'd probably like that idea.

Tony -

I've been following Blueridge closely (including owning 4 or 5) for 4 years now. Facts and sources to back up your assertions please?

By the way, I think if I'm not mistaken that the woods used in their guitars are sourced from the American side of the business and not by the Chinese...

anyway, please give us some specifics to back up the assertions you're making, or get back to playing...

You should back your claims -China has a reputation for not caring about the environment , BR is on the Cities list which makes it illegal to import or export out of the US - Adirondack Spruce comes from the adirondacks in New York state ( Ive seen some of the trees , they are beautiful - but not as big as some spruce- because the British cleaned out most of the Spruce their for ship masts in the late 1700's - but its not endangered ) Their is also the human rights concern of the chinese people , a little bit better than slavery but close . i am a peaceful person and am sorry for upsetting you - But we need to think about the world as a whole rather than just ourselves if we want this to be a better place to live. I wish you well !

By the way i have had different Blueridges in my hands , Beside being an active semi-pro guitarist for many years- and they play nice - but you can guess the rest !

Like I said, Blueridges get slammed on a lot of guitar forums. I've actually stopped visiting one particular guitar forum because of stuff like this.

Tony, you seem to have issues with non-American made products: is everything in your house American made, or are you mainly concerned when it comes to guitars? I ask, because in the relatively short amount of time I've frequented guitar forums (although I've been playing for about 25 years now), I've learned that a lot of importance is placed on the name on your guitar's headstock.

As you can see, lots of "Ford vs Chevy" when it comes to Martin vs Blueridge.

Best to play them side by side and see which you prefer.
(Martin fan here....though at the prices BR sells for I would seriously consider one...if only the neck wasn't so skinny and narrow. If they were selling for the same price as the Martin "standard" line/16 series and had comfortable necks, I'd go with Martin...but that's just me.)

Oh, regarding the "Braz" and "Adirondac", I have some nagging doubts about them.
Several different species are called "Brazillian Rosewood" by different suppliers.
Some time back the issue of CITES certification of Blueridges "Braz" came up. Last I recall nobody was able to track it down.
Same thing with "Adirondac". You really can't tell one spruce from another just by how it looks when it is cut. You have to trust your supplier.
In the case of products from China, as recent news has shown...this can be an issue. :(

Anecdote from Frank Ford at his "Frets,com" site.
Frank is a moderator over at the AG Magazine Forum "Luthiers Corner", owns Gryphon Stringed Instruments..a gem of a guitar shop...and is a very well respected repair expert/luthier;


"Various species of spruce have been used for steel string guitar tops over the years, and each have their devotees. I'm not going to get into speculating about predicting the sound of individual species, partly because of the extreme difficulty in making a positive identification.

Time for an anecdote:

I attended the A.S.I.A. Symposium in 1995 and saw a number of vendors selling guitar tops in the exhibition hall. At dinner that evening I sat at a large table with Tom Humphrey, the well known classical guitar builder. Tom was talking to one of the spruce suppliers and describing how he had selected the Adirondack spruce (also known as red spruce) tops he'd bought earlier.

I asked the vendor about his spruce, "Do you know why it's called 'red' and how can you distinguish it from other spruce." He told me," I really don't know. I can't tell it apart from other species. I just have to take the word of the man who brings me the logs. He says it's red spruce." "

Stockard
 

I guess a country that has just recently been exposed for torture and wiretapping,stc. Needs to look down on somebody. Those rotten Chinese tree killers!

:lol:
You should participate in the "Loading Dock" discussions more. :D

Yep.
As I understand it, Blueridge was not very receptive to some changes that Rich wanted them to make...one reason for him leaving.
I know he had talked about improving the neck profile, nut width, over the top HS "overlay". Not sure what else.

I'd love to get my hands on one of the new RK line. Nobody near carries them. :(

I have a Blueridge BR-163. It's my second guitar. It's what I replaced my one hundred dollar pawnshop guitar with, and I gotta say I absolutely love it. I like the skinny neck, because my fingers aren't that long. Hopefully in a few years they'll be longer. (From what I know of guitars - which isn't much) the sound seems to be really nice on my guitar and the bass is full and rich. And it looks really nice. I think I like to look at my guitar more than playing! :)

Does that mean you have rid your life of all Chinese made products?

Stockard
 

Ok Jeff,let's see: If I participate more in the "Loading Dock" discussions,I will be better at comparing guitars? Hmmm......I must try that.
(this stuff is fun aint it)?:)
Peace

Stockard, calm down my friend.
I was alluding to the discussion going into the realm of politics and your to the point reply....very prevalent in the 'dock.

My reply was not meant in any way to be critical of you or of your preferred choice in guitars.

Jeff, I am not offended by your comments. I am just enjoying the repartee
I do not own a blueridge, and my favorite guitar is a Taylor.
That said, check out my "new thread" on open mike.
I truly appreciate you and this Forum

Peace

Blueridge guitars
 

He guys. I had been leery of Blueridge guitars but I have now become a believer. I became the proud owner of a used (in new condition) BR-180 a couple of years ago and I couldn't be happier with a guitar. It is so pretty (you even get used to the small "decorative" headstock) and it has a beautiful sound. So easy to play and the workmanship is impeccable.

This last week I bought a BR-160. Same as the 180. Sounds great, easy to play and again the workmanship is super.

I own several high-end guitars but I would just as soon play these two guitars as any of the others.

Blueridges are undervalued (or maybe some of the others are overvalued) in my opinion. Both of these guitars were made in November, 02 and both are in pristine condition with no structural problems at all.

Just my $.02 worth.

Stockard
 

You know, all this reminds me of the time in the '60s when Geo Gruen bought a big stash of pre-war D45s in Georgia somewhere, put 'em in a vault in Nashville and sold one for what was then an outlandish price to a player/collector. We were pretty sure that all the good guitars would wind up in someone's "trophy room", and the players would have to resort to.....I don't know,Yamahas? Anyway, guitars got better, evenn the less expensive ones, and the "players,some of them anyway, became collectors, and vice versa.
Could this (Chinese manufactured instruments) be just another link in that chain?
Did this series of events lend themselves to the rise of Taylors and customs?
Probably.

Peace

I figure that you play the guitar/s that you like and S C R E W whoever doesn't like it. Each of us is the only one whose opinion really matters in this. We are the one that has to be satisfied with the guitar.

I've heard alot about the RK guitars, but as someone already said, there are literally none to be seen, let along played. I won't buy a guitar on "hype" and bull we often find on the internet. On the BlueRidge Forum, they had people praising RKs to the heavens and they've never even seen or heard one or played one or found out anything about them aside from "hype." My only hangup on Chinese guitars is that I absolutly do not believe what the advertising says. I do not trust the Communist Chinese Government, nor the industries it controls. I'm not talking about "the" Chinese people who have very little say in any of this. I believe Greg means well and is very honest, BUT, I sincerely doubt that he has any control regarding what woods the Chinese actually use. HOWEVER, if a guitar sounds good, I really don't care what the wood is, and if it's a guitar I'd like to own. I'm not a "green" person who believes the planet is on the edge of extinction or that the sky is falling. But I am a person who does not trust the Communist Chinese. Naturally, "what kind of wood is it really?," can be asked of all guitars made in Mainland China.

But isn't it Greg/ Recording King's responsibility to ensure that the guitars that they sell conform to some standard? If Greg Rich/ Recording King are willing to stake their reputation on the quality of their guitars, I'd think they'd be extremely interested in keeping an eye on materials and production methods.

As much as they can, yes.
China is still a bit of a "black box" when it comes to their business practices/goods. Just look at the recent scandals with pet food and toy paint.
At some point companies/people outside of China have to just trust that their Chinese suppliers/manufacturers are doing good job and are being totally honest with them. That "trust" factor just isn't completely there for me.

I think that's only true of companies who are willing to either "look the other way" or subcontract to unknown suppliers. I don't think anyone has to at some point "just trust"... it can choose to spend the money needed to oversee manufacturing or verify suppliers as needed.

Ultimately, it's a matter of how much said company is willing to risk its reputation to save a few bucks. In the case of "Blueridge," "Recording King," or "Johnson," they have no reputation to protect. "So what if a batch of guitars falls apart? We'll just come out with a new name and claim that they're a cheaper version of a pre-war Martin."

No thanks.

It's a bit of a slippery slope.
I've read reviews on some of the early Blueridges that complained about some construction problems....tops cracking, loose braces.
The folks over here who designed/commissioned the guitars from the factory in China had to hang in there for awhile and trust that things would work themselves out. They seem to have improved.
On the other hand, the company did not seem responsive to other issues, such as some design modifications lots of folks were hoping for..and as I understand it, Rich tried to push through.
I've seen the same thing with Eastman guitars....another Chinese built product.
Communist systems are not used to having to produce "quality", or having to respond to consumer complaints. China's manufacturing system will have to undergo some evolution to compete in global markets.

I own two instruments that were made in China. I have a Blueridge BR-163, and an Eastman 905ce.

They both "score" very high in three main catagories: Playability, sound, value. They also seem to exhibit excellent craftsmanship as well.

It will remain to be seen what they are like as more mature instruments (say, 20 years from now). Will they hold up as well as a Martin or a Gibson? I honestly don't know. But, I do think the same "rules" apply -- that is, always find the best example of any given model you are looing for, and buy from a shop that will "stand behind" you if you do have problems. Both of those conditions fully apply to the purchases I made .... so, time will tell.

Tp