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-   -   Takamine Lawsuit Guitars (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62267)

Auditorium 04-26-2005 05:09 PM

Takamine Lawsuit Guitars
 
I just recently bought a real nice Takamine guitar that is a total knock off of a Martin D-18. It sounds great. The headstock is just like a Martin and Takamine is spelled in the same gold lettering. From 10 feet away, it looks like a Martin; no joke. The action is low, it stays in tune even after long playing, the fit and finish is better than most new Takamine that you'd see at Guitar Center.

Does anyone know about these? Are the back or sides solid wood? It has a truss rod and a serial number on the neck block. How can I tell how old it is? Takamine doesn't deal with these guitars on their current website. Ebay always has a few of these Martin copies listed, but the hardware, bridges and fit and finish always seems to vary greatly, as though they were made over a long period of time, but I was told they were only made for a short while.

woodyboyd 04-26-2005 05:56 PM

Its a pre kaman guitar. these are some of the better tak's. 70's or 80's.

SMan 04-26-2005 06:22 PM

Played my first back in the 70's. I have three and they are a great value. An F307, EF385 12 String, and a F360S (my main camp and travel guitar). All play easy, have good action and have good sound. The 12 sounds great plugged in.

Stixx 04-26-2005 06:30 PM

I played a buddy of mine's that he got off EBay for a buck and half so to speak and it was pretty nice but it played and sound just like all japanese
guitars of that era to me, I'd sooner have a recent alvarez for just a bit more if I was look at beaters.

jayhawk 04-26-2005 06:33 PM

My Takamine F395s is a lawsuit era copy of the the Guild F512. It is a match for Guild you would want to compare it to. Never played one of the Martin copies but my expectation is that it would be a good guitar.

Jack

Greg10is 04-26-2005 07:51 PM

I got mine during college in the early '80s. It hangs on the wall at my office and has played both in church and at open mics. I bought it because it had a pick up. The only other option at the time with a pick up was an Ovation.

Mine is a dark brown Martin copy. I saw a performer playing its authentic "sister" recently and could not tell them apart.

I love the sound and playability of that guitar. This was the guitar that I would play about once a year for about 20 years when I was not playing. Believe it or not, that guitar would not require much tuning between playing.

A friend called these guitars "SuMe" models.

Folkstrum 04-26-2005 08:12 PM

A friend of mine had a 12-string Tak, with the "Martin copy" headstock. It was nice enough to play, but sounded rather jangly or "thin". I guess the Martin people (as I heard the story) made noises about a lawsuit, but never went through with it. Takamine was not about to risk going up against CF and Nazareth, and changed the headstock on their own.

From 10 feet away, you couldn't tell it wasn't a Martin 12-except maybe for the sound--maybe not even then. They seem to be prized guitars, and fetch higher prices on Ebay because of the Martin look.

Fstpicker 04-26-2005 09:01 PM

At the most they had solid tops only, and that only if they had an "S" after the model no. If no "S" you can count on it being laminated. Back and sides are laminated usually also.

Go to the Takamine site to their archives and you will see all of the older models listed. Takamine archives

My 1990 Takamine FP-400S 12-string was one of the best sounding 12's I've ever played. Sold it last year during financial hard times unfortunately.

Jeff

Sugarlander 04-26-2005 09:27 PM

The first time I played one of the lawsuit Taks was in 1975. I had a Yamaha FG200 (my first guitar) that I had been playing for 2 years. A friend of mine wanted me to help him learn guitar and he had one of these Taks. After playing it for a while I realized that it played and sounded much better than my Yamaha, which gave me GAS. I opted for a real Martin in 1977 instead of the knock-off Tak.

I saw a knock-off Tak recently in a store. It was laminated Brazilian Rosewood with a solid spruce top and looked like a Martin from a few feet away. It reminded me of my friend's and that first realization (awakening) that my first guitar was not as good as I had believed. (My ears were changing, like most of our ears do.)

jayhawk 04-26-2005 09:48 PM

The story is heard about the origin of the Martin copies is interesting:
Martin actually was working with Takamine to build these copies. They were going to be the Martin's Sigma line of guitars. Apparently, Martin even provided tooling for the guitars. Takamine was ready to produce these guitars for Martin when Kaman purchased Takamine. Martin decided they were not going to support Kaman by buying guitars from them so they canceled the contract and took Sigma to a different manufacturer. Takamine was ready to produce the guitars and simply changed the name on the headstock.

I can't say it is absolutely true, but I heard it from a very reliable friend.

Jack

soundnpix 04-27-2005 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayhawk
I can't say it is absolutely true, but I heard it from a very reliable friend.

Jack, it's true enough to be printed in the Blue Book. Slightly different wording, but essentially the same story.

I have also heard elsewhere that the founder's son once worked at Nazareth.

I have an F-385, which is the "lawsuit" design. Not bad for what it is.

rboyer2 03-26-2006 09:29 PM

My uncle has one of the lawsuit Takamine's with the Gibson style headstocks. It's one of the best sounding guitars I've ever played. To me, it's sounds almost as good as his 60's era Martin D-18.

He, for some odd reason, would string it with medium guage electric guitar strings. It sounded good then. I borrowed it for a gig and restrung it for him using Martin SPs (medium guage) and he nearly pooped himself when he got it back. He called me back telling me that he has to know what I did to make it sound even better. Guess he thought since it was an acoustic electric that he had to put electric strings on it. Go figure. My family just plays the guitars, I'm the only one with any real "knowledge" to tell the difference

Kevin A 03-27-2006 01:13 AM

My first guitar!
Definitely had the 'Martin Look' to it
A 1978 Takamine F385L (lefty) 12-string
Laminate spruce top with mahogany b/s.

Not a bad guitar for $179 (back then!).

Here'a a pic (although this particular one is 'backwards') ;)

http://www.takamine.com/pics/models/F385_lg.jpg

Oridiun 10-05-2009 09:15 AM

Res :D
 
I just bought a 1977 12 string F-385 model Tak for $240 at a local music store...

It was his best deal, and i've been wanting a 12 string for quite some time...

It sounds pretty good to me, and he told me he knew the owner (recently passed) and it's had the same strings for 20 years.

They look 20 years old, and i'm pretty sure they're electric strings, but it almost looks like they could be acoustic strings that are so corroded you can't tell...

I was going to pick up some of these http://accessories.musiciansfriend.c...ngs?sku=100025

The most amazing thing about this guitar is the body looks BRAND NEW, i swear it looks almost untouched which was part of my reasoning behind paying 240$ for a 30+ year old guitar that i knew could be (and probably was) an all laminate made in china type of guitar.

But still... the thought keeps creeping up that i could have had a beautiful Art and Luthrie Solid top and back 12 string... But i'm trying to be content with this one :P

korby 10-05-2009 09:26 AM

My first good guitar I bought new ,1977 Brazilian Takamine .
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...orby/002-1.jpg

Neil K Walk 10-05-2009 09:31 AM

I have a all-laminate F360 which is essentially a D-28 clone with cheaper materials. It's seen better days so I can't comment on its quaity other than I guess its good since it's held up for 35 years without a neck reset -though it could use one. I opted to put a block and tackle inside (reinforced the neck with a block under the fretboard extension and put a JLD Bridge Doctor under the bridge plate) and now it sounds like a low-end Breedlove. It was never very loud though and the original tuners weren't that good. Like I said though, it hasn't had the easiest life. I still like to play it every day and don't mind if my kids knock it over.

Oridiun 10-05-2009 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by korby (Post 1979492)
My first good guitar I bought new ,1977 Brazilian Takamine .

Wow, that's a beaut, how about a frontal :)

Oridiun 10-05-2009 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwakatak (Post 1979495)
I have a all-laminate F360 which is essentially a D-28 clone with cheaper materials. It's seen better days so I can't comment on its quaity other than I guess its good since it's held up for 35 years without a neck reset -though it could use one. I opted to put a block and tackle inside (reinforced the neck with a block under the fretboard extension and put a JLD Bridge Doctor under the bridge plate) and now it sounds like a low-end Breedlove. It was never very loud though and the original tuners weren't that good. Like I said though, it hasn't had the easiest life. I still like to play it every day and don't mind if my kids knock it over.

Wow... mine has been sitting in a closet the last 20 years no work, etc.

Wonder if I might opt for something like this when i have the pickup installed...

korby 10-05-2009 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oridiun (Post 1979547)
Wow, that's a beaut, how about a frontal :)

I gave it to my son and he sold it for triple what I paid for it new to pay for another guitar . It was so loud my ears would ring after playing it .
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...orby/001-1.jpg

Oridiun 10-05-2009 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by korby (Post 1979574)
I gave it to my son and he sold it for triple what I paid for it new to pay for another guitar . It was so loud my ears would ring after playing it


If my son sold a guitar I gave him like that I'd beat his

:P

But i digress... I gotta get some strings for this baby soon.

brian a. 10-05-2009 04:29 PM

As stated above: if there is an S suffix it has a solid top. Such as F-312S. As far as I know, they all had laminated b/s.

The date is usually stamped on one of the top braces. Look inside the sound hole at the edges of the top braces for the date. Also, the model number should be stamped inside on the back center seam brace. There should also another stamp that is also a copy of the Martin center seam stamp.

Once you find the model number you can look up info on the Takamine site on their archive/discontinued model pages.

drexler 10-05-2009 08:57 PM

On the Takamines that have the headstock decal that looks like a Martin decal from 10 feet away if you find the serial no. usually on the battery case mounted on the neckblock, the first 2 numbers are the year the second two numbers the month the third 2 numbers are the day of the month the last 2 numbers indicate the order in which it was made, 33 would be the 33rd guitar made that day. I believe as a general rule that is accurate. I buy every one I can find, yard sales etc. if they are cheap enough as they are easy sells, people seem to like them. I did keep a 12 string, an es385s I bought at a Guitar Center sidewalk sale for cheap a couple of years ago because it sounds good plugged in, tinny unplugged but it was an 82 and was like new and is fun to have around.

Neil K Walk 10-05-2009 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oridiun (Post 1979559)
Wow... mine has been sitting in a closet the last 20 years no work, etc.

Wonder if I might opt for something like this when i have the pickup installed...

I guess it depends upon how much you're willing to spend. I got mine as a gift when it was 18 years old. Prior to that it had spent at least one year in a hot south Florida attic. I took it with me to college where it was not properly cared for. Then after I graduated it sat in a closet with the same strings on it at full tension for about 5 years or so.

What I can tell you though is that if you do get it worked on you might be surprised at how alive it might sound. Mine certainly seemed to enjoy being played again.

Oridiun 10-06-2009 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwakatak (Post 1980218)
I guess it depends upon how much you're willing to spend. I got mine as a gift when it was 18 years old. Prior to that it had spent at least one year in a hot south Florida attic. I took it with me to college where it was not properly cared for. Then after I graduated it sat in a closet with the same strings on it at full tension for about 5 years or so.

What I can tell you though is that if you do get it worked on you might be surprised at how alive it might sound. Mine certainly seemed to enjoy being played again.

It sounds pretty good right now, and the only thing i can find "wrong" with it is there is a bit of a bulge right behind the bridge/saddle, but i thought that was normal for a 12 string...

The guy told me to keep it tuned to D or D# standard unless i was playing it, or playing live....

other than that he just said i could slap a capo on at the first or second fret to achieve "normal" pitch...

I thought lowering and raising the pitch frequently on a guitar was bad, especially one as old as this?

I've kept it tuned to E since i bought it...

I know about the model number... mine was made august 13'th 1977

Folksinger66 04-01-2020 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayhawk (Post 738640)
The story is heard about the origin of the Martin copies is interesting:
Martin actually was working with Takamine to build these copies. They were going to be the Martin's Sigma line of guitars. Apparently, Martin even provided tooling for the guitars. Takamine was ready to produce these guitars for Martin when Kaman purchased Takamine. Martin decided they were not going to support Kaman by buying guitars from them so they canceled the contract and took Sigma to a different manufacturer. Takamine was ready to produce the guitars and simply changed the name on the headstock.

I can't say it is absolutely true, but I heard it from a very reliable friend.

Jack

Folksinger66 here. Takamine's web site shows the F360 and EF360, although marked
as Discontinued. They appear to be similar to the Martin "Lawsuit" guitars. By the way,
here's a bit more on Takamine:

reverb.com/news/a-brief-history-of-takamine-guitars

PAPADON 04-01-2020 04:35 PM

Japan really hit its guitar making stride in the early 70's and never looked back. Among Japanese Takamine fans the old 70's and 80's knock offs are legendary. It doesn't get a whole lot better than that. I've got a 1980 Japanese Sigma/Martin that is a killer as well.

80 Sigma/Martin D10 Anniversary Edition

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ot...A=w490-h640-no

Here's a clip of one
https://soundcloud.com/ibookmusic/the-claw

SkipII 04-01-2020 04:52 PM

Miss my lawsuit Tak
 
I had a 1982 F370SK (solid spruce top, koa back and sides.) It was a solid instrument, decent tone, but the back was laminated, so the koa was more eye candy than functioning as a true tone wood.

Bought it new on sale for $350. Sold it two months ago for ... $375!

Ramesses 04-02-2020 03:42 AM

I've got an old Guild Jumbo takamine. Its a beautiful guitar. The guild versions are somewhat rare. I've also had a couple of the Martins.


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