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Old 06-07-2012, 07:04 PM
trabb trabb is offline
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Default Strengthening fingers for barre chords?

This question came to me while reading the thread on playing F chords, but rather than hijack that thread...

I've been playing off and on for the past 20 years, and through sheer determination, I've gotten to where I can make most barre chords sound pretty good. (Still have trouble barring C shapes, but it's not often that I need to do that.) However, I occasionally run into a song that requires pretty much nothing BUT barre chords - a song I played a few weeks ago comes to mind which pretty much had nothing but F and B-flat chords. When I get done playing something like that, my left hand just downright hurts. Any suggestions for strengthening those muscles to be able to play barre chords longer?
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:36 PM
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The best excercise of course is doing barre chords! Make sure you the guitar action is set up as low as possible without getting string/fret buzzes.
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:39 PM
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i started this thread with the best advice i know of:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=252525
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:29 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Hi Trabb,

Yes, I have been there... and your hand just aches for a while. And my only solution for that was to keep playing the song day after day until the ache wasn't so bad. You just get stronger, but it takes time to build up the strength. And when you don't keep doing that particular song that needed all those barre chords, you tend to lose some of that strength.

- Glenn
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trabb View Post
...When I get done playing something like that, my left hand just downright hurts. Any suggestions for strengthening those muscles to be able to play barre chords longer?
Hi Trabb...

On a well setup guitar with low to medium-low action, barre chords are not a strength move. This doesn't mean you won't or can't cramp the muscle which is being pressured into action if you don't find a relaxed and repeatable way to hold down the so strings don't rattle.

On my guitars I can play barres without my thumb even being behind the neck. Playing barre chords is not a squeeze technique...or it doesn't have to be.

You can also play both F and Bb chords in several barre positions, including only the center four strings which are far easier to use continually without wearing out your hand.

Lastly, may I suggest a capo accompany you to these outings? They fit nicely in a pick drawer.

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Old 06-07-2012, 11:52 PM
elpenguinoloco elpenguinoloco is offline
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I've definitely experienced this as well. On songs that are mostly or entirely bar chords, my hand is definitely cramped and kind of achy at the end. I sometimes stop playing those songs before I finish them only because my hand hurts. But all the same, I'm stubborn about bar chords. The way I see it, one shouldn't shy away from playing anything because of bar chords. They are not scary. They are an integral part of playing guitar and open up a whole lot more options and possibilities once you're comfortable with them.

One thing I have discovered recently, though, is that A shape bar chords wear my hand out much faster than do E shapes. Not exactly sure why, or if it's just a personal thing, but it makes a difference for me. For that reason, sometimes I'll replace an A shape with an E shape. For instance, instead of an A shape Bb barring the first fret, I'll play an E shape Bb barring the sixth. I've also done E shape C chord on the 8th instead of A shape C on the third. Not even for the whole song, necessarily, but maybe just to give my hand a break for a bit. That's what I was saying about versatility: once you're comfortable with them, it gives you so many more ways to play the same chord. There is a different quality to the same chords when played in different positions, but in many cases, I find they still work quite well.
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:00 PM
JanVigne JanVigne is offline
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The strenghthening technique I've used to regain fretting strength after a broken wrist and elbow are to play a sliding barre beginning at the fifth fret. One you get away from the first fret barre you've relieved the high tension caused by the nut and forming barre chords becomes far more simple. For some friends who wanted to play guitar I've suggested they place a capo on a fret up the neck (first fret/third fret?) to provide lower tension for their fingers until they develop some strength. As your strength develops, eventually you should remove the capo and learn to play the full barre at the first fret.

However, to begin, play this progession of chords all based around a first fret F minor shape (or open Em if you're learning the CAGED system):

Am at the fifth fret, slide to
Gm at the third fret, slide to
Fm at the first fret, slide to
Em open (use third and fourth fingers to play this) and then return to
Am at the fifth fret while forming the barre and begin again, eventually ending on the Am to resolve the progression.

If your pinky doesn't have the strength to play this progression, simply change it around to a minor 7 shape by playing only the barre and adding your third finger on the fifth string two frets up from your barre. Gradually add your pinky finger as your strength develops.

Play it first as power chords hitting only the fourth, fifth and sixth strings. Then play it striking only the fourth, third, second and first strings. Begin to mix up which strings you are playing as if you were either the lead or rhythm guitar player.

This is, at least in one version, "The House of the Rising Sun". However, you can make it anything you want by simply playing an E or (the smaller and easier) E7 shape barre as your hand strength develops. I find it much easier to get into the habit of making a "F" barre shape at the upper frets then sliding down into the actual chord itself. Once you've mastered the shape by sliding into it, begin to work on grabbing the chord from, say, an open C Major shape by using a C/(third fret barre) G7/(first fret barre) F7/C progression. Another variation would make the open C shape an A7 shape played as a barre at the third fret and switching it to the barred G7.
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Old 06-09-2012, 06:14 AM
trabb trabb is offline
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Thanks for the replies all. I continue to learn a ton from this site. A good setup is definitely in order - I passed on that when I bought the most recent guitar because I wanted to play it a while before messing with it, but that "breaking in" period is over now.

MC1 - thanks for re-linking to your post; somehow I overlooked that thread.

Larry J - I've never met anyone who could say that a barre chord doesn't involve significant effort. (Which is another way of saying that I probably haven't met anyone who'd gone to the trouble to get their guitar set up correctly.) As to capos - love 'em, but I occasionally end up playing stuff that I can't quickly transpose, and try as I might, when I put a capo on the first fret and play an E shape, my feeble little brain thinks of it as an E chord rather than the F that it really is. This is a separate problem though
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:23 AM
JanVigne JanVigne is offline
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"As to capos - love 'em, but I occasionally end up playing stuff that I can't quickly transpose, and try as I might, when I put a capo on the first fret and play an E shape, my feeble little brain thinks of it as an E chord rather than the F that it really is. This is a separate problem though"


Sort of since I was only suggesting the use of a capo for strengthening exercises. Use it to relieve the tension at the first fret until you can form a barre chord with ease and sufficient strength.
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trabb View Post
...Larry J - I've never met anyone who could say that a barre chord doesn't involve significant effort.
Hi Trabb...

It's not a "strength" technique. We are not learning to overpower the instrument. In fact once you nail barres on a well setup guitar, it's amazing how easy they are to play. Some players DO treat it as a strength maneuver, and have a hard time playing them fluidly. We are not supposed to wrestle with the instrument.

That said, they do have to be mastered; dropping them into music in a hurry is an art form mixed with a skill. Getting fingers-n-barre to drop into place properly is the challenge...and good mental exercise.

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Old 06-09-2012, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi Trabb...

It's not a "strength" technique. We are not learning to overpower the instrument. In fact once you nail barres on a well setup guitar, it's amazing how easy they are to play. Some players DO treat it as a strength maneuver, and have a hard time playing them fluidly. We are not supposed to wrestle with the instrument.

That said, they do have to be mastered; dropping them into music in a hurry is an art form mixed with a skill. Getting fingers-n-barre to drop into place properly is the challenge...and good mental exercise.

I agree with you, Larry. usually beginners think they'll need a lot of strength to play barred chords. Which is not the case. However, they do need a little bit more steady supporting gripping power between the thumb and index than open chords do. It would be interesting for some female players to chime in. I'm sure they could add some inside information of how they have learned barred chords...
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Old 06-09-2012, 06:43 PM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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As I mentioned the best exercise for getting better at doing barre chords is just playing barre chords, and that is at least in part because you
eventually learn how to play different barre chords in the most efficient and least fatiguing way.
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Old 06-10-2012, 05:34 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trabb View Post
This question came to me while reading the thread on playing F chords, but rather than hijack that thread...

I've been playing off and on for the past 20 years, and through sheer determination, I've gotten to where I can make most barre chords sound pretty good. (Still have trouble barring C shapes, but it's not often that I need to do that.) However, I occasionally run into a song that requires pretty much nothing BUT barre chords - a song I played a few weeks ago comes to mind which pretty much had nothing but F and B-flat chords. When I get done playing something like that, my left hand just downright hurts. Any suggestions for strengthening those muscles to be able to play barre chords longer?
If you've been playing 20 years (even only on and off), and you still have trouble with barres, I suggest you check the following:

1. Action and set-up. Have you had this done recently? Or ever?

2. Hand, wrist and arm position (and guitar position in general). For this, see the stuff mc1 posted (link above). IMO, thumb position and elbow angle are the main things to get right.

If you have heavy guage strings, ask yourself if you really need them. If you use heavy guage, and only play rarely, it could easily be a cause of fatigue, even with good set-up and position.

Of course, if you're not playing regularly, and then try and play a song full of barres (even if the above things are all OK), you're likely to get tired! Then it's simply as rick-slo says: just playing the guitar more is the best practice there is.

Last edited by JonPR; 06-10-2012 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 06-10-2012, 05:50 AM
trabb trabb is offline
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Just to clarify - no trouble at all actually playing barre chords (although there are some shapes that I just haven't bothered to practice/learn even though I should). The problem is primarily playing songs that are mostly or all barre chords, especially down on the first few frets. Based on the very helpful responses, I'm going to begin with setup issues and then proceed from there. Thanks all!
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:40 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trabb View Post
The problem is primarily playing songs that are mostly or all barre chords, especially down on the first few frets.
Unless it's simply a question of bigger stretches down there, that suggests your nut may be too high - it should need no more pressure on low frets than high ones.
If you think that might be the case, check with a capo on fret 1. If that makes it easier to fret (less pressure required) then your nut is too high. (It's up to you how serious you think it is, how much difference it makes )
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