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AcousticBuckeye
03-31-2011, 09:27 PM
I've been enjoying playing my Seagull Cedar Folk. I'm curious if there are any other guitar makers out there that are making 1.8" nut widths. It really is nice for fingerstyle and doubt I would want to go less now.

AB

Dotneck
03-31-2011, 09:40 PM
I've been enjoying playing my Seagull Cedar Folk. I'm curious if there are any other guitar makers out there that are making 1.8" nut widths. It really is nice for fingerstyle and doubt I would want to go less now.AB

I think 1.8 is about the same as 1 13/16...not real common but they are out there. I have a Larrivee 00-70 that has 1 13/16 and I like it.

donh
03-31-2011, 09:44 PM
My McCollum is 1.8125 and I consider that the ideal nut width.

My one Leach is a 1.75 nut with a 1.8125 (1-23/32) string spacing, and these two are my favourite acoustics to play :-)

Eric.Hope
03-31-2011, 09:47 PM
I swear by them. I had a Washburn acoustic with a 1-11/16" nut width for something like 10 years, and wondered why I always had such a hard time playing it. Then I started playing classical guitars, as I started exploring more Latin styles, and discovered that the wider nut & neck worked for me in a way that the more narrow nut widths absolutely did not. Then, last year, I began a search for a steel string guitar with as wide a nut & string spacing as possible (the closest thing I could find to a classical with steel strings on it). I tried a few, and ended up with a Takamine ETN30C, which has a 1-7/8" nut width (which is even wider than 1.8"). It's awesome, and my fingers have never been happier! I also recently picked up a Recording King ROS-06, which has a 1-13/16" nut width (only a hair wider than your Seagull), and I'm loving that, too. It lets me know that I'm not completely hopeless, and can still play a steel-string acoustic! I just have to be picky about which ones I choose. Anyway, to answer your question, I think more & more guitar manufacturers are making guitars with wider nuts now, in response to the demand from fingerstyle players. Takamine, Recording King, Seagull, Martin... All of them manufacture guitars with wider nuts. Do check them out.

ljguitar
03-31-2011, 09:51 PM
I've been enjoying playing my Seagull Cedar Folk. I'm curious if there are any other guitar makers out there that are making 1.8" nut widths. It really is nice for fingerstyle and doubt I would want to go less now.

AB
Hi AB…
The good news is that many makers build guitars with the same string spacing as the Seagull.

Your Seagull's nut width - though listed at 1.8'' - has the strings spaced exactly the same width at the nut as a standard 1.75'' guitar (1¾''). Most major manufacturers build some models with this spacing.

The strings of typical slightly wider equipped guitars are not spaced at 1.75'' or 1.8'' - it is the measure of the total width of the nut/fingerboard at the nut. But it is the string spacing that makes the difference, not how wide the fingerboard is.

The confusion is a result of them being manufactured in French Speaking (metric) Canada, and they convert the measurements from French and metric to decimals...for the English side of the website. On the French speaking side they are expressed in metrics.

I agree that this is a more comfortable string width for many of us who play fingerstyle guitar than 1 11/16'' (1.72'' converted from metric), and there are some who have guitars customized to even greater nut widths.

Another factor which impacts playability for the fretting hand for some players is whether the saddle is 2¼'' or 2 5/16'' or 2⅜''. The slightly wider 2⅜'' are wonderful for the picking/plucking hand.

Hope this helps...

darylcrisp
03-31-2011, 09:55 PM
my Beneteau 00012C has 1 13/16" width at the nut and i love it-spoiled with it actually as now its the standard which other widths are judged for myself.
The neck profile i think is just as important and can go even further in making or breaking a "nut width" for myself. This Beneteau has what i would call a full D shape(full shoulders and almost a soft flat spot on the back middle-more like a Flamenco in the Hermanos brand).

Likewise my National NRP has a 1 13/16" width at the nut, but the neck profile is a very soft V-very unlike the modified V of Martin and the soft V of the Santa Cruz's i've played. I really enjoy this neck from National.

and to get more specific to your question about whats out there with that 1.8 neck, check this out........I definitely am..............

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acoustic-Instruments/Small-Body/Gibson-Acoustic/Keb-Mo-Bluesmaster.aspx#

d

epaul
03-31-2011, 10:14 PM
What LJ said.

I have had several Seagulls over the years, and they are fine guitars, but they do not have a wider than typical string spacing. Regardless of the nut measurement they list, the string spacing at the nut is the same as a 1 3/4" nut Martin, and the string spacing at the saddle is a strong sixteenth of an inch less.---Which is all fine. But it is not a wider than typical string spacing, as is so often claimed (due to the 1.8" written on their website).

What some Seagulls do have (not all) is a nice full neck, fuller than many of its competitors. And this, by itself, can be quite nice, especially those with larger hands. It used to be all Seagulls had the full neck, now it is all confused by multiple models, so check the specs, some gots fat necks, some skinny.

lennylux
04-01-2011, 01:59 AM
Gibson Keb Mo Bluesmaster, small package, huge Gibson sound, 1.805 at the nut. Superb.

HudsDad
04-01-2011, 09:26 AM
Yep, nothing magical about Seagull's 1.8" nut. I have three Seagulls and as stated above, the string spacing at the nut is the same as my 1.75" Larrivée L-03 and 1.75" Martin D-18GE.

cisco7
12-16-2014, 09:13 AM
Gibson Keb Mo Bluesmaster, small package, huge Gibson sound, 1.805 at the nut. Superb.

Quite agree with this one :)

chadrod
12-16-2014, 09:26 AM
To me, this is the sweet spot for nut spacing.
I don't have particularly large hands or long fingers, so a 2" nut is out.
Any smaller and i get sloppy on finger picking.

Larry Pattis
12-16-2014, 09:34 AM
I have seen a full 1/16" of E-to-E string-spacing difference on 1-3/4" nut-width guitars, between different makers of acoustic guitars.

Martin = 1-17/32"

Tippin = 1-16/32" (1-1/2") - the most common, that *I've* seen, from builder to builder.

Goodall = 1-15/32"


As I often say, string-spacing (at the nut *and* bridge) is quite important, because of course your fingers go to the strings (and not the overall nut width).

That said, the dimensions of the underlying fingerboard also have a lot to do with feel and playability, especially to where the E-strings lay (lie?) in regards to the edges of the fingerboard. This depends not just on the overall nut width and nut-spacing, but on the bridge string-spacing and the overall taper/geometry of the neck (12th fret overall width). Some people (like me) want particular E-to-E spacings (nut and bridge) with a lot of distance between the E-strings and the edges of the fingerboard, and this requires particular fingerboard dimensions. Others might prefer the exact opposite, that is, E-strings that are fairly close to the edges of the 'board. Personal choice.

Personally, I find it difficult to grasp when people simply talk about the nut-width or the nut spacing in regards to playability/feel/etc., and don't immediately also note the bridge -spacing and the overall width of the neck/board at the 12th fret.

Judson
12-16-2014, 09:36 AM
Even though as others have stated, the Seagull string spacing is no wider on their 1.8 inch nut width than most guitars with a nut width of 1.75, I still like the fact that the Seagull gives you a "smidge" of extra room outside the E strings that is not present on 1.75 inch necks.

.

Larry Pattis
12-16-2014, 09:53 AM
Even though as others have stated, the Seagull string spacing is no wider on their 1.8 inch nut width than most guitars with a nut width of 1.75, I still like the fact that the Seagull gives you a "smidge" of extra room outside the E strings that is not present on 1.75 inch necks.




Try also measuring the E-to-E bridge spacing, the 12th fret overall fingerboard width, and then ponder the full set of numbers...

philjs
12-16-2014, 10:07 AM
I agree that this is a more comfortable string width for many of us who play fingerstyle guitar than 1 11/16'' (1.72'' converted from metric), and there are some who have guitars customized to even greater nut widths.

A minor correction: 1 and 11/16" = 1.6875" (or 1.69" to 2 decimal places).

Here's a quick reference (rounded to 2 decimal places) of the most common nut widths and their metric equivalents:

43mm = 1.69" = 1 and 11/16"
44mm = 1.73" = 1 and 3/4" (approx., 3/4" = 1.75")
45mm = 1.77" = 1 and 25/32"
46mm = 1.81" = 1 and 13/16"
47mm = 1.85" = 1 and 27/32"
48mm = 1.89" = 1 and 7/8" (approx., 7/8" = 0.875")

Phil

ljguitar
12-16-2014, 11:21 AM
A minor correction: 1 and 11/16" = 1.6875" (or 1.69" to 2 decimal places).

Here's a quick reference (rounded to 2 decimal places) of the most common nut widths and their metric equivalents:

43mm = 1.69" = 1 and 11/16"
44mm = 1.73" = 1 and 3/4" (approx., 3/4" = 1.75")
45mm = 1.77" = 1 and 25/32"
46mm = 1.81" = 1 and 13/16"
47mm = 1.85" = 1 and 27/32"
48mm = 1.89" = 1 and 7/8" (approx., 7/8" = 0.875")

Phil

Hi philjs...

You missed my point. The strings on a 1.82" Seagull fingerboard are spaced just like a 1¾" nut from other companies. It doesn't matter what you calculate/covert the extrapolated width to be. It matters what the actual spacing is.

Some players a few years back tried cutting nut slots a bit wider on a 1.82" Seagull neck to seek out extra 1¹³/₁₆" spacing, and the outside strings kept pulling over the edge. In practice, it's not actually a wider fingerboard.

FloridaGull
12-16-2014, 11:50 AM
The Cordoba D9, D10, and D11 (Acero series - http://www.cordobaguitars.com/guitars/acero - are all-solid-wood dreadnoughts with a 1.8" nut width... :)

Judson
12-16-2014, 12:34 PM
Larry, I must be misunderstanding your point.

I agree entirely that from the factory, a Seagull with a 1.80 nut has no wider string spacing at the nut than the average 1.75 inch nut.

But you seem to be saying here, that the *fingerboard* on a 1.80 inch nut is no wider than a 1.75 inch nut.

Obviously it is a wider fingerboard, although "in practice" pushing the string spacing outward could potentially cause the problem you describe.

Having enough extra outside space to avoid bending the E strings over the edge is the main benefit to the wider fingerboard on a Seagull in my humble opinion.


Some players a few years back tried cutting nut slots a bit wider on a 1.82" Seagull neck to seek out extra 1¹³/₁₆" spacing, and the outside strings kept pulling over the edge. In practice, it's not actually a wider fingerboard.

philjs
12-16-2014, 02:44 PM
You missed my point.

I understand your point perfectly, Larry. My point, regardless of whether we're talking about a nut, a neck width, string spacing or any linear measurement, is that 1 and 11/16" does NOT equal 1.72".

Phil

ljguitar
12-16-2014, 04:55 PM
…But you seem to be saying here, that the *fingerboard* on a 1.80 inch nut is no wider than a 1.75 inch nut.

Hi Judson...
If I misunderstood your intention in regards to that sorry. It's not my goal to argue. I'm not saying the fingerboard is identical width to the Imperial measurement/width, just string spacing.

They work in metrics, not Imperial measurements - inches.
Seagull guitars are designed and built by a French Canadian company and the measurement is precisely 46mm, not 1.8". Having owned an original S-6, they don't have any more resilience against outside strings being pushed over the edges than other properly built guitars.

Sometimes people imply that buying an S-6 will give you a wider than 1¾" string spacing, derived from the fact Seagull lists (on the English side of their site) the width of the nut as 1.8" instead of 1.75". Seagull (and Norman) still build guitars with the typical string spacing of a traditional 1¹¹/₁₆" nut (44mm) which they list as 1.72" width (conversion utilities tell you 1.73), and 1 ¾" nut (46mm) which they list on the English side of the site as 1.8.

Thanks for the note, and chance to banter a bit.

reholli
12-17-2014, 03:38 AM
Hi philjs...

You missed my point. The strings on a 1.82" Seagull fingerboard are spaced just like a 1¾" nut from other companies. It doesn't matter what you calculate/covert the extrapolated width to be. It matters what the actual spacing is.

Some players a few years back tried cutting nut slots a bit wider on a 1.82" Seagull neck to seek out extra 1¹³/₁₆" spacing, and the outside strings kept pulling over the edge. In practice, it's not actually a wider fingerboard.




Actually, philjs didn't adress your point, so you don't know whether he missed it or not.

What he did do was correct your incorrect conversion error, a valid correction regardless of what the point of your post was...

Larry Pattis
12-17-2014, 10:48 AM
The one thing that's clear to me (beyond the fact that my calculator says 11 divided by 16 is .6875...you made me look!) is that a lot of people still don't quite "get" playability issues in how ALL of the specs come together on a guitar.

Sigh...

ljguitar
12-17-2014, 11:49 AM
The one thing that's clear to me (beyond the fact that my calculator says 11 divided by 16 is .6875...you made me look!) is that a lot of people still don't quite "get" playability issues in how ALL of the specs come together on a guitar.

Sigh...

Hi Larry...

You know that different players respond differently to different specs.

Some like a wider spacing at the saddle regardless of spacing at the nut, and in fact make it a deal breaker if the saddle string spacing isn't up to their expectations.

Others demand a baseball-bat fat D neck profile; still others shallow C. Short scale, long scale, multi-scale all enter the fray too.

Others just grab the instrument in front of them and play up a storm.

I suspect you have unique reasons to specify your choices which supersede the average player's needs/wants, and have a more educated view of the combining of features to determine playability than the average player.

Larry Pattis
12-17-2014, 02:57 PM
<<snip>>

You know that different players respond differently to different specs.


<<snip>>


Yes, I do know this.

I will continue to speak up (if occasionally) about all the specs, how string-spacing does not just relate to the nut, how the nut does not just relate to the 12th fret neck width, how the bridge spacing might relate to the 12th fret neck width, etc., etc., etc....

Glennwillow
12-17-2014, 03:05 PM
I've been enjoying playing my Seagull Cedar Folk. I'm curious if there are any other guitar makers out there that are making 1.8" nut widths. It really is nice for fingerstyle and doubt I would want to go less now.

AB
I've got a Martin 000-28VS with a 1 13/16" (1.812") nut width, so wide nut widths like this are not all that uncommon. For me, it's a little wide, as I actually prefer 1 11/16" nut width, but I have slender fingers and spent four and a half decades playing my old Martin D-35 with the narrower nut width, so for me, it seems like home.

- Glenn

Psalad
12-17-2014, 03:06 PM
The one thing that's clear to me (beyond the fact that my calculator says 11 divided by 16 is .6875...you made me look!) is that a lot of people still don't quite "get" playability issues in how ALL of the specs come together on a guitar.

Sigh...

No reason for the sigh... if I pick up a guitar and like it, then I like it. If I pick up a guitar and something seems off... well, it doesn't really matter too much why (to me anyway).

I understand for someone who is an aficionado, those things are important... to deeply understand what works and what doesn't for you. But... honestly... for me, I buy it if I like it. I know I do like a 1.75" neck width... :)

Larry Pattis
12-17-2014, 03:11 PM
<<snip>>

But... honestly... for me, I buy it if I like it. I know I do like a 1.75" neck width... :)


With which string spacing at the nut...?

What bridge spacing?

What 12th fret overall fingerboard width?

:cool:

gtonesine
12-17-2014, 06:31 PM
With which string spacing at the nut...?

What bridge spacing?

What 12th fret overall fingerboard width?

:cool:

thanks Larry,
I am calling your specs Global specs vs local specs
and it seems obvious IMHO that you are correct about
how to evaluate nut width , bridge spacing ect

TBman
12-17-2014, 07:11 PM
I've been enjoying playing my Seagull Cedar Folk. I'm curious if there are any other guitar makers out there that are making 1.8" nut widths. It really is nice for fingerstyle and doubt I would want to go less now.

AB

What I like about the folk is the neck profile too.

ewalling
12-17-2014, 07:23 PM
Hi AB…
The good news is that many makers build guitars with the same string spacing as the Seagull.

Your Seagull's nut width - though listed at 1.8'' - has the strings spaced exactly the same width at the nut as a standard 1.75'' guitar (1¾''). Most major manufacturers build some models with this spacing.

The strings of typical slightly wider equipped guitars are not spaced at 1.75'' or 1.8'' - it is the measure of the total width of the nut/fingerboard at the nut. But it is the string spacing that makes the difference, not how wide the fingerboard is.

The confusion is a result of them being manufactured in French Speaking (metric) Canada, and they convert the measurements from French and metric to decimals...for the English side of the website. On the French speaking side they are expressed in metrics.

I agree that this is a more comfortable string width for many of us who play fingerstyle guitar than 1 11/16'' (1.72'' converted from metric), and there are some who have guitars customized to even greater nut widths.

Another factor which impacts playability for the fretting hand for some players is whether the saddle is 2¼'' or 2 5/16'' or 2⅜''. The slightly wider 2⅜'' are wonderful for the picking/plucking hand.

Hope this helps...



The Seagull does feel different from other guitars marked with a 1.75 nut width, though, Larry. I have an SWS Mini-Jumbo that has the 1.8 and the neck is noticeably wider than, say, my Collings. It's a marginal difference, but it's definitely there. I also find the Seagull 1.8 extremely comfortable. On my SWS, the satin neck is quite shallow - it feels great.