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roelioo
03-28-2010, 01:32 PM
I use a Taylor 814 and Cubase 5.
What reverb-type can i use for recording my acoustic guitar?

ljguitar
03-28-2010, 02:17 PM
I use a Taylor 814 and Cubase 5.
What reverb-type can i use for recording my acoustic guitar?
Hi roelioo…
I suggest recording without reverb and then adding it later - that way you can change all the settings without affecting the recording.

Pokiehat
03-28-2010, 05:26 PM
First thing is what do you want to use reverb for? If you have a really nice sounding room and you like the sound of your guitar in it, you probably don't want to use any reverb at all. If you are lucky enough to record in something really nice sounding like a concert hall or a church then the natural reverberation is probably what you want and you capture that with ambient mics.

Reverb in the mix is something I usually use if I'm making dry (close miced) recordings and I want to simulate the effect of the guitar sounding like its in a room. That or I'm recording in bad sounding rooms and I'd get better results trying to eliminate room sound with close micing and then recreating room sound with reverb in the mix. That or if I want to deliberately use an artificial but nice sounding reverb like the ones you get on guitar amplifiers (spring reverb) or plate reverb.

I highly recommend SIR (Super Impulse Reverb). Its completely free. I also recommend going over to noisevault and downloading the EMT 250 plates, the Lexicon PC91 Hall reverbs (real spaces) and the PCM91 plates. The last time I checked they also had TC System 6000 reverbs and some very weird verbs from Eventide Eclipse.

All of these are free and they sound very good. The only downside is that theres no pitch modulation and convolution processing is very hard on your CPU so make sure you have a fast computer!

Also check out this site for some more impulse responses. I haven't used any of these but I've been told they are well recorded: http://www.rhythminmind.net/presetblog/category/samples/impulse-sets/

rick-slo
03-28-2010, 06:47 PM
Using a little reverb is almost always helpful in improving the sound of the acoustic guitar.

Regarding Cubase in the box you can use any number of VST pluings. Convolution reverbs such as SIR (no longer free however) can be nice with the right impluse responses.
For a little money you will find excellent impulse responces here http://www.acousticas.net/ (http://www.acousticas.net/)
They also have Bricasti M7 impulse responses, down load those here while you still can (for free :) ) http://www.acousticas.net/World/IRs/AcousticasM7.zip (http://www.acousticas.net/World/IRs/AcousticasM7.zip)

There are many other VST reverbs you could try the demos of such as
http://www.112db.com/redline/reverb/ (http://www.112db.com/redline/reverb/) and this free one (which is pretty decent) http://www.anwida.com/product.asp?pid=7 (http://www.anwida.com/product.asp?pid=7)

There are many more you could demo. Try a VST reverb google search.
Lexicon just came out with a native reverb which is very good but pricey
http://www.lexiconpro.com/product.php?id=163 (http://www.lexiconpro.com/product.php?id=163)

Of course there is all the hardware reverbs you could use.

For example two guitarists with excellent recording sounds (Huttlinger and Gerhard) use (or at least have used on prior albums) a little Lexicon reverb.

The key on reverb is in most cases is not to over do it. Use enough to have it just call attention to itself and then back it off a bit.

Pokiehat
03-29-2010, 01:35 AM
SIR1 is and always will be free. SIR2 costs money. :)

Hardware reverb increasingly feels redundant to me unless we are talking something like those crazy Eventide Harmonizers like Orville and H8000 or whatever its called. At the moment I don't think there are any software/DSP platform based parallels to units like that but boy would it be nice if there were. Its certainly possibly, you would just need alot of DSPs.

Lexicon recently released a plugin version of PCM96 which sounds better than the hardware, costs about half the price (1500 bucks) and you can use as many instances of it as your CPU/DSP can handle. Oh, and its also quite efficient.

I don't know why anyone would want to use hardware verbs if there are software equivalents like that around. Only exceptions I can think of is the hardware that clocks in at 4,000 bucks and up and even then the Eventides can be a pain in the butt to use compared to plugins.

redavide
03-29-2010, 02:40 AM
I don't know why anyone would want to use hardware verbs if there are software equivalents like that around.

I use a hardware verb (Lexicon PCM70) because it sounds great for recording AND it sounds great for live situations . . .

Might as well get double duty, right?

Ivob
03-29-2010, 03:28 AM
I'm of the same opinion that without reverb the sound of an acoustic guitar sounds quite 'raw' when listening to a guitar not live. It would have to be a very professional mic and all the other recording stuff to say that reverb is useless. According to me a slight reverb should be used always, it gives the sound another dimension. And the advice to apply reverb on a raw recording is good...Cubase surely has some native reverb plugin, i don't think it's not sufficient

Pokiehat
03-29-2010, 03:56 AM
I use a hardware verb (Lexicon PCM70) because it sounds great for recording AND it sounds great for live situations . . .

Might as well get double duty, right?

The simple fact is that DSP based signal processors in this day and age of multi core super CPUs are becoming increasingly redundant and DSP farms are basically glorified dongles. Lexicon PCM Native basically proves that since it sounds as good as if not better than a PCM 96 (which at 3 grand costs twice as much) and its remarkably CPU efficient. It allows for as many instances as you can squeeze out of your CPU which means that if you have a fast enough computer, you don't need multiple PCM 96s. If you have already integrated a computer into your live setup then its not a difficult choice.

Now all we need is for Eventide to cave and make a native plugin version of the H3000. Soundtoys are already doing harmonizer/H3000 'inspired' plugins. Makes you wonder why Eventide are letting this sector of the market slip by but high cost software for professional use has always been pirate-able as all hell...

pathdo
03-29-2010, 07:38 AM
I was looking for something different and built my own plate reverb unit.
The plate measure approx. 36x60 inches and is suspended in a wooden frame made out of 2x6's. I used a Vidsonix audio tactile transducer (VX-6H72) to stimulate the plate and a simple contact pickup to pull the sound back out of the plate. The signal is then sent to a mixer for EQ and then sent back into my DAW.

Pic
http://home.swbell.net/hebert11/plate_reverb_pic.jpg
In the pic the lid isn't mounted yet and was simply leaning up against the wall mounted plate reverb unit. Its been up and running for about 2 years and get used primarily for vocals.

To hear the plate go to
http://www.vinecrestaudio.com/downloads/
and click on one of the platereverb demos.

I have a vocal and drum demo, I'll post an acoustic demo soon.

Joseph Hanna
03-29-2010, 07:59 AM
Lexicon PCM Native basically proves that since it sounds as good as if not better than a PCM 96 (which at 3 grand costs twice as much) and its remarkably CPU efficient.

Haven't yet heard the Lexicon plug-in. That said and until I hear this up close and personal, I remain Biblically skeptical :)

rick-slo
03-29-2010, 08:05 AM
Nice job on the plate pathdo and thanks for the clips (nice job on those also).

rick-slo
03-29-2010, 08:11 AM
Haven't yet heard the Lexicon plug-in. That said and until I hear this up close and personal, I remain Biblically skeptical :)
I did the 10 day demo on the The Lexicon Native Reverb and it does sound quite nice. Warmth and very clean tails. I can't compare it to the hardware versions
it emulates though since I have not used those in my system. However the ease of use as a VST and the mulitple instances you can use of it are big pluses
compared to hardward.

Joseph Hanna
03-29-2010, 08:56 AM
I did the 10 day demo on the The Lexicon Native Reverb and it does sound quite nice. Warmth and very clean tails. I can't compare it to the hardware versions
it emulates though since I have not used those in my system. However the ease of use as a VST and the mulitple instances you can use of it are big pluses
compared to hardward.

Hey ric,

You know it's never the tails that I listen to although I know that seems to be the standard test bench mark for reverbs :)

The test for me is how the reverb "appears" in the mix. I always reference James Taylor's Hourglass for examples of stunning reverbs. Sometimes in that mix the reverbs are VERY heavy but don't necessarily appear that way. They're big hall's with LONG pre-delay's and yet sit so wonderfully. Listen to Branford Marsalis soprano sax solo on the song GAIA.

Here to fore any software I've tried just doesn't do that. They "sit" canny and intrusive. Then I gotta scramble to start eq'ing and dialing back and well...compromising.

Not saying the new breed of soft-verbs aren't better as they may well be and of course the ability to use more than one is somewhat of an advantage and certainly keeping the parameters you've found helpful in a folder for instant recall is cool.

I'm gonna try em when I get a chance but until then my M-3000 is still very hard to beat.

rick-slo
03-29-2010, 09:14 AM
Tails are probably more noticeable on a single instruments versus a mix. Glad you like the M3000 (TC Electronics?) I am using the Powercore VSS3s though I would like it if they made the VSS4s available. The Lexicon Native really is pretty nice so give the demo a spin.

Joseph Hanna
03-29-2010, 11:49 AM
The Lexicon Native really is pretty nice so give the demo a spin.

Clearly the BEST software reverb I've ever encountered. Very musical. Great space.

I won't be selling my TC verbs but this is the first time I've ever heard software sound this good.

pathdo
03-29-2010, 12:10 PM
Clearly the BEST software reverb I've ever encountered. Very musical. Great space.

I won't be selling my TC verbs but this is the first time I've ever heard software sound this good.

Yes but at $1900 list its beyond the reach of most home recording musicians.

ronmac
03-29-2010, 12:52 PM
I am curious if anyone here has tried, or use regularly, Aether (http://www.2caudio.com/products/aether/index.html). It has been receiving rave reviews.

I downloaded the trial and tried it on a couple of projects. I was impressed by how it sounded and found the interface to offer a lot of flexibility, albeit not entirely easy to decipher.

Pokiehat
03-29-2010, 01:06 PM
Yes but at $1900 list its beyond the reach of most home recording musicians.

Yes but then its a Lexicon reverb and those things always were out of the reach of most home recording musicians. PCM Native gets you the reverb sans the chorus/phaser stuff and a metal box for half the price of a PCM96. Still very expensive of course and I'm done with the 2 week trial which is somewhat depressing because I know how good they are and I know I can't afford to drop 1.5k just like that. Oh well, back to normality for me. Ho hum.

I'd love it if they sold say, the halls and the plate reverb separately for like 300 bucks each or something. Then you just get the ones you need as you can afford them. But the way it stands the full package is a great deal if you were considering buying into a Lexicon unit anyway. The rest of us working class saps can get half way there for free with SIR and lexi impulses. :D

By the way, TC reverbs are sick nasty. Always wanted a System 6000. Never could afford one. I mean lets face it, the base price of an M6000 is a snip at something like $6,000. Some day when I'm rich and famous eh?

rick-slo
03-29-2010, 04:31 PM
I am curious if anyone here has tried, or use regularly, Aether (http://www.2caudio.com/products/aether/index.html). It has been receiving rave reviews.

I downloaded the trial and tried it on a couple of projects. I was impressed by how it sounded and found the interface to offer a lot of flexibility, albeit not entirely easy to decipher.
Ron, I have had this a year or so now. So far I have rarely used it as a reverb of choice for acoustic guitar as I have not got it to sound that pleasant or to sound like a convincing space. That said it does have a lot of parameter controls including modulation controls so with enough patience I might be able to come up with some usable presets of my own.

KevWind
03-29-2010, 07:34 PM
I use a Taylor 814 and Cubase 5.
What reverb-type can i use for recording my acoustic guitar?
I am not familiar with Cubase but if it comes with plugins as part of the software, two types of verbs to try would be if there any that emulate a plate and or a room type. Maybe start with a preset like a guitar plate or a hall of some type .

Also as Larry said you have many more options if you record dry ( no FX ) and then experiment when mixing.

Also IMO you get a better result if instead of putting the verb on the audio gtr track itself. If your software allows for sends and aux tracks put the verb on an aux track then use send from the gtr track to the aux( usually via a bus) Start experimenting by reducing the volume on the verb aux track until you cant hear it working , then bring it back up to taste

One question are you recording only GTR or GTR and other vocals or instruments ?

If only GTR then discriminating use of verb can be nice. Although as someone suggested if within a mix Then you may choose not to use verb

For example I mostly do not use any verb for gtr in my mixes. I usually have 2 or 3 gtr parts. The main gtr track is almost always dry. However I will some times use a delay on the supporting gtr tracks . Plus I usually have a lead vocal and some background vocal highlights.

BTW I use a Taylor 810 for most of my recording you can audition the recording techniques I have been describing, on my myspace page in my sig line.
For example the first song "The Question " is almost verbatim the above description == no verb on any guitars or vocals . Delay on the little lead riffs. Cheers, Kev

Ty Ford
03-29-2010, 08:00 PM
For hardware, the Lexicon 300 was always pretty amazing.

In software, I always use two stereo reverb plugins set differently.

To the OP, I missed it if you said how you wish to use the reverb. For recording, I go dry and then add as needed.

Live for my acoustic, or even my Tele, I like the builtin reverb on the Fishman SoloAmp, set to maximum model (4 or 5, I forget).

Regards,

Ty Ford

ronmac
03-30-2010, 05:08 AM
Ron, I have had this a year or so now. So far I have rarely used it as a reverb of choice for acoustic guitar as I have not got it to sound that pleasant or to sound like a convincing space. That said it does have a lot of parameter controls including modulation controls so with enough patience I might be able to come up with some usable presets of my own.

Thanks Rick. I never got a chance to demo it on solo guitar, so I appreciate your comments. I did use it on a folk/rock demo and it was quite amazing on the vocals.