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  #1  
Old 01-24-2010, 01:41 AM
Bigzam12 Bigzam12 is offline
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Default Thrid string always out of tune.. Normal?

I have a used godin guitar, that I bought in great condition. I'm happy with the purchase, but theres this one thing that stumps me.

The third string (G) always sounds out of tune. I showed my music teacher that, and he said that's pretty common on electric guitars, and that happens because the strings aren't wounded with brass (like the upper bass strings), but just a straight flat string. He said they do that in thinner strings. He also showed me, if you tune it to the right pitch (the tuner always tunes that string wrong), when you go up the fret board, it sound off again. He said they did that to balance the overall sound.

Does anyones guitar do the same thing, and is there a way to minimize the problem, or fix it? It dosen't bother me alot, but I can always tell its out of tune when I strum. It sounds that way unplugged, and plugged in. The adjustment on the bridge of the guitar looks a little more up then the other strings. Would lowering it help? Would new strings fix this too?

Thanks in advanced
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Old 01-24-2010, 02:24 AM
Bobby1note Bobby1note is offline
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Let's get some basics out of the way first. I use a locking wrap around the post first, then tune "up" to pitch (never down). Once you're there, give the string a good "bend". That will bring it down below pitch, so tune it up to pitch again. Another bend, and repeat tuning up again, until it stays put..

Bob
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  #3  
Old 01-24-2010, 04:33 AM
Losov Losov is offline
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Not uncommon, but not exactly normal. The guitar probably needs some minor adjustment by a knowledgeable person. The repair department of a music store can help you.
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:25 AM
Road Trip Road Trip is offline
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I used to feel the same way (valid or not), then I tried using heavier strings with wound G and have never had the problem since. Don't be afraid of heavy strings! Your hand will get stronger....
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:05 AM
GHS GHS is offline
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Default 3rd string

I have experienced this too. I have a Michael Kelly Patriot elec (which is an outstanding guitar, don't knock it if you haven't tried one), and the 3rd, G string appears out in the 2nd to 3rd fret. It was not like this before, I have had it about four months, don't play it much as I like my acoustics better, and it has been cold and dry in the house. It seems to go sharp if I press harder btw the frets. No other strings are out and once past the 3rd fret all is okay all the way up the neck. Could the G string be somehow stretched out? Anyone have any ideas? I am not well versed in the quirks of some types of guitars.
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:16 AM
OldMusicianGuy OldMusicianGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigzam12 View Post
I have a used godin guitar, that I bought in great condition. I'm happy with the purchase, but theres this one thing that stumps me.

The third string (G) always sounds out of tune. I showed my music teacher that, and he said that's pretty common on electric guitars, and that happens because the strings aren't wounded with brass (like the upper bass strings), but just a straight flat string. He said they do that in thinner strings. He also showed me, if you tune it to the right pitch (the tuner always tunes that string wrong), when you go up the fret board, it sound off again. He said they did that to balance the overall sound.

Does anyones guitar do the same thing, and is there a way to minimize the problem, or fix it? It dosen't bother me alot, but I can always tell its out of tune when I strum. It sounds that way unplugged, and plugged in. The adjustment on the bridge of the guitar looks a little more up then the other strings. Would lowering it help? Would new strings fix this too?

Thanks in advanced
Sounds like you have an intonation problem. If your guitar has an adjustment to adjust the saddle for each string, you should be able to adjust it and fix your problem.

Put a tuner on the guitar and play the string open and then fretted at the 12th fret.

If it's sharp... adjust the saddle to lengthen the string (move it away from the nut).

If it's flat... adjust the saddle to shorten the string (move it toward the nut).

This is also effected by the action, so if you change the action you may have to tweak it a little.

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:22 AM
OldMusicianGuy OldMusicianGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHS View Post
I have experienced this too. I have a Michael Kelly Patriot elec (which is an outstanding guitar, don't knock it if you haven't tried one), and the 3rd, G string appears out in the 2nd to 3rd fret. It was not like this before, I have had it about four months, don't play it much as I like my acoustics better, and it has been cold and dry in the house. It seems to go sharp if I press harder btw the frets. No other strings are out and once past the 3rd fret all is okay all the way up the neck. Could the G string be somehow stretched out? Anyone have any ideas? I am not well versed in the quirks of some types of guitars.
Sounds like your nut action is a little off. Put a capo on the third fret and push each string down at the first fret. There should be very little space (about 0.005) between the bottom of each string and the top of the first fret. If this space is too much, it will cause the string(s) to be sharp at the first 2 or 3 frets. A tech should be able to fix this for you at very little cost.
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:19 AM
royd royd is offline
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technically all guitars are out of tune. Tempered tuning does that. Google "tempered tuning" to learn more about that. That said, you have another problem. You didn't say what your guitar is... beyond the manufacturer. What is going on is that the saddle for the G string is either too close or too far away making the string too long or too short. Notice on your guitar that the saddle is in a slightly different place for each string. The physics of the string require that to get it more or less in tune.

If you have an electric with adjustable saddles, that saddle needs to be adjusted. Play the harmonic at the 12th fret and the fretted note at the octave and move the saddle until they match. If your fretted note is sharp, move the saddle further from the nut, if it is flat, move it closer. Make sure you have a new string on when you do the adjustment.

If you have a typical acoustic bridge, then you need a new compensated saddle. A wound 3rd string versus a plain one requires the saddle to be cut differently. You can't switch from one type of string to the other without swapping the saddle. To make things easy, TUSQ has a compensated saddle available for both a plain and a wound third that should get you very close to the ball park.

If you get the fretted note to match the harmonic and you still have problems... it is more complicated and you need to see a tech for a good set-up.
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  #9  
Old 01-24-2010, 12:01 PM
GHS GHS is offline
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Default 3rd string problem

Yes, I should have said it is a solid body elec w/adustable bridge. If all the other strings are fine I believe the problem would be in the bridge adjustment as two responders have stated. I will try that first and see what improvement is made in the intonation. It comes strung with D'Addario XL110 lights,10-46. Elec's are new to me and I was not sure where to start. Thank you so much for your input. Michael Kelly company is very good to deal with for anyone interested in a very easy playing but inexpensive guitar.
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  #10  
Old 01-24-2010, 12:23 PM
Bigzam12 Bigzam12 is offline
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Thanks for everyones input! I'm not sure what model it is to be exact, because I dont know where to look. It looks very similar to a godin xtSA flame, but in blue. The saddle is adjustable, and the third strings adjustment looks slightly diffrent then the rest. The string is always out of tune, even when played open, but it sounds like thats the problem.

It has D'Addario light strings on it. I'll try to tinker with it today, and see what happens. I'll keep everyone posted
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  #11  
Old 01-24-2010, 03:26 PM
Bigzam12 Bigzam12 is offline
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a update. I tried putting a tuner on it, and playing the thrid string on the 12th fret, and it says its in tune. The tuner seems to have a really hard time tunning the guitar. When I hit the 6th string, it says the strings almost in tune, then it all the sudden thinks its the 3rd string? I'm using a clip on tuner, that works great for all the other guitars I have. It dosen't sound that off on the 12th fret either. the farther you get down the neck, the better it sounds.

I tried putting a capo on the third fret, and the strings behind it are actually touching the fret. theres no space at all. The action on everystring seems too low, because when I fret, I sometimes get a buzz. I'd adjust the saddle for the action, right? Would I want to tighten or loosen the screws sticking out the back of the saddle? Its the type where the bridge is adjustable via a screw. It also has a tremolo bar, if that changes anything.
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  #12  
Old 01-25-2010, 02:33 PM
Dangerine49 Dangerine49 is offline
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I always use string sets with a wound G since a plain G ALWAYS sounds out of tune and funky to me.
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  #13  
Old 01-25-2010, 04:34 PM
Aaron Smith Aaron Smith is offline
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Your teacher is correct. The "ideal" guitar string would not have any bending stiffness; only the mass, tension and string length would contribute to the pitch. Of course, strings also have bending stiffness; to minimize the effect, strings are designed so that they are no thicker than necessary to withstand the tension.
Lower strings are wound so that mass can be added without adding stiffness unnecessarily. Acoustic guitars usually have a wound G string, so they don't have a big issue here. Electric guitars usually have a solid G string, which is quite a bit stiffer than ideal. Hence, the wonky sound.
Most electric players prefer the solid G string because it is easier to bend notes- important for blues playing. If you like the purity of the wound G (a lot of jazz guys do), you can always buy them separately and substitute them in.
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  #14  
Old 01-25-2010, 07:10 PM
raptordigits raptordigits is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerine49 View Post
I always use string sets with a wound G since a plain G ALWAYS sounds out of tune and funky to me.
Glad to here that I'm not alone. I had issues with the G for years on various guitars.. Could never quite figure out the issue but it would sound 'odd'. When I checked and rechecked with tuners, the G was always 'right on'. I thought it was some quirk of my hearing.
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  #15  
Old 01-25-2010, 09:46 PM
Bigzam12 Bigzam12 is offline
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That clears alot of things up. I might look for a wounded G string, even if theyre a little heavier. I play acoustic guitars mainly, so the added thickness wouldn't be a deal. I might alo raise the action to deal with some fret buzz, while playing a little harder. Thanks everyone, for all the info, and tips! I should have it just the way I want it to be soon
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