Right Hand Technique

[Fingerstylist]

I'm working on Pachelbel's Canon in D right now and I'm playing it with the thumb taking care of the 3 bottom and 3 fingers taking care of the others. This seems to work out alright except for the fact that my thumb has a tendency to bump the 5th string while it's ringing when it goes to play the 4th. This is bad cuz I want to that bass to ring out as long as possible. Now with concentration I keep the bumping from happening. I was wondering though would it just be better to move my whole right hand position up to play these parts a la classical technique? Or would that mess me up in the long run?

Sorry for the long winded question and hope it makes sense.

[rick-slo]

Probably (don't know the exact arrangement you have) keep using the thumb for the bottom three strings in cases where one of those strings is played on the first or third beat in the measure as that will help with a more even sound. On an off beat you can substitute your index for the thumb on one of the lower strings (probably for this piece just talking about the fourth string, say in an arpeggio). This and a wee bit longer thumbnail may help you avoid bumping adjacent strings

[mmmaak]

Can you show us the arrangement?

[sdelsolray]

I'm working on Pachelbel's Canon in D right now and I'm playing it with the thumb taking care of the 3 bottom and 3 fingers taking care of the others. This seems to work out alright except for the fact that my thumb has a tendency to bump the 5th string while it's ringing when it goes to play the 4th. This is bad cuz I want to that bass to ring out as long as possible. Now with concentration I keep the bumping from happening. I was wondering though would it just be better to move my whole right hand position up to play these parts a la classical technique? Or would that mess me up in the long run?

Sorry for the long winded question and hope it makes sense.

Why would you want the 5th string (usually played open in that piece, i.e., an "A" note) to keep ringing when you play the open 4th string (a "D" note)? Consider stopping the 5th string from ringing at the same time you play the open D.

[rick-slo]

Why would you want the 5th string (usually played open in that piece, i.e., an "A" note) to keep ringing when you play the open 4th string (a "D" note)? Consider stopping the 5th string from ringing at the same time you play the open D.
Steve, there are several places in the tune (at least the version I am looking at) where you are going from fifth to fourth on non open strings and you do want the fifth string to keep ringing.

[Fingerstylist]

Hey guys,

Sorry, I should have gave you a link to the arrangement. Ever heard of Jawmunji? Here's the link.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jawmunji?blend=1&ob=4#play/uploads/23/I4Sh9cKEDH0

Rick, I think I'll probably keep doing what you suggested. My thumb is accustomed to that work anyway. Why change it?

MMM, you play much classical stuff?

Steve, Rick is correct about the reason for the ringing ;)

[sdelsolray]

Steve, there are several places in the tune (at least the version I am looking at) where you are going from fifth to fourth on non open strings and you do want the fifth string to keep ringing.

Of course there are, but I'm speaking of when that doesn't happen. In Pacabel's Cannon, going from the open 5th to open 4th string is at the cadence V - I. Having the 5th (no pun intended) ring over the tonic at the beginning of a new variation is poor articulation and undesired harmony (5th in the bass).

Learning how to stop the 5th string from ringing at the precise time you are playing the 4th string is difficult. Once learned, you have (more or less) also learned how not to stop the 5th string from ringing (at least as far as right hand chops go).

[mmmaak]

MMM, you play much classical stuff?
Not really, but I do study some classical techniques (on my own) and transcribe some classical pieces that I particularly like. I'm working on Douglas Niedt's arrangement of Cavatina, for example, which I think I shared with you previously (?) :)

I'm going off to work soon so I'll check out the Canon video later, if others haven't done so already ;)

[ljguitar]

...Now with concentration I keep the bumping from happening....
Hi Fs...
As a teacher I'd recommend you concentrate till it's second nature rather than learning an entirely different discipline...both are learning and I bet you will be able to overcome that incidental muting pretty quickly...far quicker than repositioning the body of the guitar and your right hand at a completely new angle.

[TBman]

I agree with LJ, but you may want to just start practicing a bit with your guitar on your left knee instead of your right (I'm assuming you are a righty). Footstools are great too and are very cheap ($10 or so). Having the guitar on my left knee helps a great deal (for me) to play the upper frets and helps my right hand get a decent angle of attack for my fingerpicking.

Bottom line - classical position is better for me, but may not be for you. Don't try to put a square peg in a round hole if you can help it.

[JeremyG]

Fingerstylist,

If it were me, I wouldn't change the "attitude" (position) of your playing because it's likely already comfortable for you.

Rather, s-l-oooo-w down your practicing enough until you solve this trouble in the way that it will give you feel of the piece.

I hope this helps. I'm a rookie and it's rookie advice but I find it helps my efforts/troubles.

And when you do slow down at first, go even slower! And for some time.

I have trouble with this so don't expect it to be comfy in the beginning.

Good luck,

Jeremy.

[ljguitar]

Hi Fs...
I just want to be clear that to me it sounds like a technique issue not a posture one, and I wouldn't recommend you change anything but perfect your technique.

If you can play it correctly when concentrating, it's just a matter of working it into your hand/brain, not altering your technique. Thumb/finger independence is a technique that fingerstylists face in several forms, and it sounds like you are conquering this aspect of it...good luck and keep us posted.

There really is no shortcut, just needs time & muscle-memory development to work it in...

[Fingerstylist]

TBman,

I currently play the guitar in classical position. At this point, I can't imagine doing it the traditional way.

LJ and Jeremy,

I agree with you and will just keep plugging away at what I'm doing. Maybe one day these hands won't be so clumsy :)

[TBman]

I was wondering though would it just be better to move my whole right hand position up to play these parts a la classical technique?

Ok, I'm confused.

[Fingerstylist]

Ok, I'm confused.

Hey Barry,

What I mean is instead of playing the 5th and 4th string with my thumb, I use my thumb on the 5th and index on the 4th. Classical guys do this correct? I use a more traditional fingerstyle approach. Thumb takes care of the 3 bass strings ALWAYS.

[mmmaak]

Thumb takes care of the 3 bass strings ALWAYS.
I don't think there should be any hard and fast rules regarding this. Do whatever sounds right and works well. Having said that, one of the challenges of playing the larger wound strings with the i/m/a/c fingers is the "screechy" sound you can get when plucking at an angle, assuming you use nails. Bare-flesh players do not have this problem, of course.

[TBman]

Hey Barry,

What I mean is instead of playing the 5th and 4th string with my thumb, I use my thumb on the 5th and index on the 4th. Classical guys do this correct? I use a more traditional fingerstyle approach. Thumb takes care of the 3 bass strings ALWAYS.


If you doing single quarter notes, then yes, but if you're doing a run up or down across the bass strings its best to alternate pi or even pim. It depends.

[Fingerstylist]

Anyone else giving this a shot? Measures 13-16 are giving me a spanking lol.

[rick-slo]

Anyone else giving this a shot? Measures 13-16 are giving me a spanking lol.
This is how I would do it. Note also the half barres. Right hand fingers used in measure 14 sets you up nicely for measure 15
http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Music/Cannon.jpg

[JeremyG]

Fingerstylist,

I can't decide whether to thank you or what! That posted link you supplied has been with me for the last two days. It's so enjoyable to listen to. It took me, a guy really interested in the acoustic blues, totally off guard.

Being new, I'm very inexperienced and now this. It didn't "seem" tough until I tried it. The fingering looked fairly simple (see, that's that inexperience!) and upon reading the authors notes on just how difficult the piece is to play, it has me in it's grasp. I really need to get this one down.

An amazing bit of music. Thanks for the You Tube link. I think it's going to bother me for a long, long time but I'm going to learn it!

This guitar is an incredible instrument.

If you can play this you have my respect! I think it's going to take me a long time...

Jeremy.