How to not forgetting a piece you have learned

[Hendra]

Hi fellow AGF-er,

Eversince I started learning fingerstyle pieces, I have learnt quite some fingerstyle arrangement such as Beatles for fingerstyle, rag time arrangement etc. Everytime I've learnt a piece and play it over and over for couple of hundred times maybe and think I have memorized it, I would move along and focusing on learning other stuff; either songs or other fingerstyle piece. The problem is, every now and then when I try to play the piece that I thought I have memorized earlier, there is always a certain part that I somehow forget how to play and ends up re-learning the particular part. Of course it's not difficult to just open the tab book or hear the original recording, but this is still annoying especially when you play for the family, friends etc.

It did occur to me that for certain piece, it seems that I was able to involve my sub-conscious to help me play certain piece even while talking. (the finger just move by itself during playing, I am sure you know what I mean)

Is there anyway or tips from you guys on how to prevent forgetting fingerstyle piece that you have learnt ? Also is there any way of putting all of those in your sub-conscious so that you can play it out easily.

Any thought or input will be very much appreciated.

[SongwriterFan]

No idea.

I know lots of PIECES of music on piano. But hardly any full songs.

I've never been known for my memory.

[Glennwillow]

To keep from forgetting pieces at my age (61) I have to play the song fairly often -- at least once a week. Funny -- I can remember tons of music I learned when I was 16 but I can't remember what I learned a month ago if I don't keep playing it.

What we were talking about?....

- Glenn

[ewalling]

I hear you! I'm afraid I don't have any solutions but I have experienced the same thing. I learn and then memorize fingerstyle pieces to the point where I am no longer conscious of what my fingers are doing; all being well they just fall into the right places. But then ... it will happen that the fingers don't fall into the right place in one section, and as the piece has since passed from brain memory to finger memory, there's nothing else for it but to go back to the tab, which feels onerous at that stage. Mmmm, what to do about that... Maybe it's important to retain mental awareness of what the fingers are doing so that we are not so dependent on finger memory - I don't know!

[mmmaak]

There's simply no surefire way to remember an arrangement indefinitely without occasional practice. The brain is a biological "computer" after all, and time will take its toll.

Having said that, if you learn something more by ear than by notes, I think you'll probably have a better chance of remembering it for longer, or at least have the ability to reconstruct/re-arrange when necessary.

I've heard it said that the difference between a good player and a pro is one practises till they don't make mistakes, the other practises till they *can't* make mistakes....or something to that effect. In order to "express" your music rather than just "play" it, you need to build up hundreds if not thousands of practice hours so that you don't have to concentrate on what your hands are doing.

[jpbat]

I found that it's easier to remember when there is a melody going on.
The brain seems to *hum* the melody, and it's a guide to what the fingers are doing.
If the melody is played prominently, the remaining stuff can be changed on the fly without worrying too much, so no need to remember *exactly* where and when everything has to be. Gives a bit of leeway.
Maybe not a complete answer to the original question, but a part.

[thall]

I begin my daily practice session playing older songs I have learned, and ones I am most likely to forget passages. When I get stuck, usally in the middle of the song somewhere where variations of the melody occur, I make a note of it and move on. The next day I play the song in my head, not trying remembering exactly how the fingering is supposed to be, rather to establish the sequence of the passages.

That night I can play through the song without digging out the tab. Kinda like meeting an old friend, where after speaking for a short while forgotten memories come back.

A variation of this is to view the song on a u-tube video, (I use Video Piggy to store these on my computer) before attempting to play. I'm going to review Dan Ross's 'First Ride' tonight. Because I finished learning it a month ago, and havn't played it since, I'll view the video before going to work and mentally play it in my head a couple times during work. Upon arriving home I will view the video again, tune to that crazy FACDCF and then attempt to play it.

I like a few songs in alternate tunings but they are a bother once learned because who wants to re-tune to review, as in this instance, the one and only song I know in FACDCF? Sheesh I'll never find another song in that tuning that I like enough to learn....

Repition is the key! :)

[TBman]

I have the same problem (I'm 54 btw), but after playing a song a 100,000 times I get bored too and move on to something else. I guess playing the tune once or twice a day would help in memorization.

[stratokatsu]

To keep from forgetting pieces at my age (61) I have to play the song fairly often -- at least once a week. Funny -- I can remember tons of music I learned when I was 16 but I can't remember what I learned a month ago if I don't keep playing it.


Agreed - same age, same problem. I can remember songs I sang in college when I took up guitar, the Peter, Paul & Mary stuff, the Kingston Trio stuff, CSN stuff... but I can't remember some of the songs I've written without my lyrics and it seems no matter how often I play them, I don't remember them.

Maybe they are just utterly forgettable.

[Hendra]

All,

Thank you so much for the comments. Most did rings a bell to me. Especially the playing in the head part. Reminds of me of the process when I am learning to speak a new language. The same concept of practice in the head apply here. I really should try to practice in my try to imagine play stuff on my head as well.

Need to add another digit to my practice repetition routine to thousands instead of hundreds as well. I am 38 by the way and should really try to learn as much as possible before getting to the stage some of you are facing now; forgetting what was just learnt last week. Geez, guess we all need memory chips implant in our head sooner or later.

[ewalling]

All,
I am 38 by the way and should really try to learn as much as possible before getting to the stage some of you are facing now; forgetting what was just learnt last week.

Erm, I was kind of hoping that that was a good-humored exaggeration! ;)

[mmmaak]

Erm, I was kind of hoping that that was a good-humored exaggeration! ;)
My neighbours are known for not mincing words :lol:

[Glennwillow]

Erm, I was kind of hoping that that was a good-humored exaggeration! ;)
Well, there is no question that a person remembers things better when they are younger than when they are older. But some people have amazing memories for some things. Tommy Emmanuel seems to be like that with music -- he doesn't seem to forget things once he learns them, but then his dedication to learning a piece is pretty high, too.

Thanks, Glenn

[Hendra]

Erm, I was kind of hoping that that was a good-humored exaggeration! ;)

That's me 20 years from now looking through the crystal ball. Not much time left before then.:D:D:D

[ewalling]

Well, there is no question that a person remembers things better when they are younger than when they are older. Thanks, Glenn

So it wasn't an exaggeration?! Yikes, between arthritis and creeping ( or maybe 'galloping') senility, the future doesn't look too good for us pickers! :eek:

[ewalling]

My neighbours are known for not mincing words :lol:

So it seems ... :hmm:

[raptordigits]

I'm 55 and have played for 40 years. I can't even remember what I've forgotten. Guitar is suppose to be enjoyable so I don't play songs learned in the past that I got bored with. I've learned Classical Gas 3 times and that's it...can't stand it anymore.

Just about every time I pick up the guitar I warm up by running through a few bars of a dozen or so classical pieces and other music that uses finger style. The key I find is to memorize a few essential bars and then improvise a bit with the rest of the piece. If you learn the chord progression and not just the notes then you can fill in those braindead moments with something that sounds like it fits. For example I'll memorize about a third of Pachelbel's Canon in D and then wing the rest of it....there is no 'right' version of it. The same with some pieces by Bach. Something like 'Greensleeves' sounds good regardless of how it's fingered if the notes fit. I don't think I ever play Spanish, Flamenco,Samba the same way twice.
There is a German fellow called Siggy who has lessons on Youtube. He tends to teach 'the approach' to a song rather than all the notes. His method encourages thinking about what's being played and not just memorizing a bunch of notes.

[akuleana]

I usually play most of the songs I learned everyday, somedays I get stuck in the piece and the only way I can play it is to start at the beginning and somehow my fingers just know where to go. I started playing ukulele during my middle school years and still can play the first 2 songs I learned, I've learned countless songs on the uke since but now I only remember the first 2.

[Fliss]

The only thing that works for me is practice practice and more practice. If I don't play a song for a while, when I come back to it I find I've forgotten it. So I just keep having to practice the songs that are in my repertoire in order to keep them there. It's getting harder though as I learn more songs!

Fliss

[ewalling]

The only thing that works for me is practice practice and more practice. If I don't play a song for a while, when I come back to it I find I've forgotten it. So I just keep having to practice the songs that are in my repertoire in order to keep them there. It's getting harder though as I learn more songs!

Fliss

Yes, joking aside, I agree that a more important issue than memory-loss induced by age is volume of material. If you only know a handful of songs, then it's going to be easier to hold onto them. As the number increases, things get more complicated. What makes things worse for me, too, is that I can get greedy and want to learn more songs and at a faster rate than I'm capable of.

[b3l5tele]

What works for me is repetition, repetition, repetition, and then repeat again.

[raptordigits]

I should have added to my post that understanding music theory is a big help. If the progression of chords or notes of a song 'makes sense' they are easier to remember and also it's easier to improvise. When I was in my teens I memorized all 5 billion notes to a version of Bach's 'Jesus, Joy of Man's Desire'. I'd go half way through and hit some awful discordant note... later with some they under the belt I might not get the 'right' note everytime but it is rarely the 'obvious' wrong note. Or, if I get off track. I can tread water with a few bars and then get back on track.

[D28guy]

Got a cell phone with a record function?

[KirkT]

Ahh the joys of bcoming more mature (old).
Anymore I am so nervous about remembering any song when I'm playing publicly that I have to have the music in front of me....
I actually have reached a point that I have my own music stand at church that nobody else is allowed to use ..... You know, one of those director's stands with the sides that extend. I can't even remember what the next song is so I have to put them side by side or I get confused in between songs.;)

[Juan_Banjovy]

I video pieces I don't want to forget on my digital camera & label the SD card. At 52 I've forgotten more than I know.

[ewalling]

Call me a wild optimist, but I have (perhaps misguided) illusions that I'll actually remember where I live when I reach 60!

[Glennwillow]

Yes, joking aside, I agree that a more important issue than memory-loss induced by age is volume of material. If you only know a handful of songs, then it's going to be easier to hold onto them. As the number increases, things get more complicated. What makes things worse for me, too, is that I can get greedy and want to learn more songs and at a faster rate than I'm capable of.
That's exactly right... If I have learned hundreds of songs (maybe thousands, who knows?) over the years, it's unrealistic to think I'm going to have all of these songs at my fingertips if I haven't played them for a while.

Regards, Glenn

[BULLSPRIG]

Don't look at the neck when you play. Try closing your eyes when you practice. Learn how to find your way around the neck without using your eyes.

[Glennwillow]

Don't look at the neck when you play. Try closing your eyes when you practice. Learn how to find your way around the neck without using your eyes.
But how do I read the writing on my brain that I can't seem to find when it's lost.... ???

I just have to keep playing those songs, as many as I can remember. My wife tells me I am staving off Alzheimer's Disease by working up a larger and larger repertoire of songs from memory. I sure hope so...

Regards, Glenn

[ljguitar]

Hi Hendra...
I play them for others, regularly.

Not only do my gigging partner and I have a weekly gig at a local coffee house, I have a once a month Guitar Society meeting, and I teach many of my arrangements to students. Periodic use is a great way to remember things...

Hope this helps...