Bb2 chord

[james55]

Is the chord Bb2:

Bar the first fret then 3rd finger on the 4th string - 3rd fret, 2nd finger on the 3rd string - 2nd fret?

??

[banpreso]

x
1
3
3
1
1

yes, it's a barr chord; i do ring and picky finger on the 3rd fret

[interociter]

I would play this with an A2 shape barred at the 1st fret.

I play the A2 (no 3rd in the chord) as:

A2 (Asus2)
e -0-
b -0-
g -2-
D -2-
A -0-
E -0-

So if you play that barred on the first fret you'd get a A#2 or Bb2. I would barre the first fret and play 3rd finger D-string, 4th finger g-string, both on the 3rd fret.

Bb2
e -1-
b -1-
g -3-
D -3-
A -1-
E -1-

[james55]

Thanks, appreciate the help!

[Bryan T]

I wish folks would call these sus2 chords, rather than just 2. My pet peeve, but it isn't going to change a thing.

[james55]

I wish folks would call these sus2 chords, rather than just 2. My pet peeve, but it isn't going to change a thing.

Sorry.... I just call it what it is on the music sheet... you can call it sus2, that's cool with me.. :)

[Bryan T]

Sorry.... I just call it what it is on the music sheet...

My comment was aimed at folks who make the chord charts, not folks who are trying to interpret them. Bb2 doesn't really mean anything, whereas Bbsus2 does. I think it is sloppy chart writing.

I saw the '2' usage the most on charts when I played in a praise band. Guitarists seemed to switch in between playing sus2 and add9 chords without really thinking about which was appropriate.

Like I said, my personal pet peeve. Most folks don't really care.

[ljguitar]

I wish folks would call these sus2 chords, rather than just 2.
Hi Bryan...
So then are we going to call a minor 7th chord a min/min 7 (minor chord with minor 7th) and a major 7th a maj/maj7th because technically that is what we are playing.

Also a dominant 7th would then be a maj/min7 chord...technically.

[Bryan T]

Hi Bryan...
So then are we going to call a minor 7th chord a min/min 7 (minor chord with minor 7th) and a major 7th a maj/maj7th because technically that is what we are playing.

Also a dominant 7th would then be a maj/min7 chord...technically.

While I agree that the naming conventions have some issues, they have an understood interpretation. Trained musicians will know exactly what you mean if you say Cmin7 or Cadd9.

C2 is a different use and is typically interpreted to be either Cadd9 or Csus2 - two different chords. Since we already have names for Cadd9 and Csus2, why muddy the waters with C2?

Bryan

[ljguitar]

...C2 is a different use and is typically interpreted to be either Cadd9 or Csus2 - two different chords. Since we already have names for Cadd9 and Csus2, why muddy the waters with C2?
Hi Bryan...
It only muddies the water if people don't know what it infers, and for that matter a '2' chord falls into the same category as an E5, D5 etc which is also a name/designation made-up to describe note groupings of only the root and 5th of a chord...which then technically would probably not be a chord...but we do know what it infers too...

[Bryan T]

Hi Bryan...
It only muddies the water if people don't know what it infers, and for that matter a '2' chord falls into the same category as an E5, D5 etc which is also a name/designation made-up to describe note groupings of only the root and 5th of a chord...which then technically would probably not be a chord...but we do know what it infers too...

Some folks might even interpret C2 as a diad. See why I think it is a poor name? Too much ambiguity.

So far, we have three options: C2 could be a diad (C and D), Csus2 (C, D, and G) or Cadd9 (C, D, E, and G).




I recommended Ted Greene's "Chord Chemistry" in James' other thread. I'll suggest it to him again, as it helps work through the naming conventions and will open up the guitar quite a bit.

[mmmaak]

I wish folks would call these sus2 chords, rather than just 2. My pet peeve, but it isn't going to change a thing.

I don't think they're the same thing.

A2: x02420 (much "prettier" to my ears)
Asus2: x02200

To the OP, if you're stretchy, you can try:

x13531

(bar on the first fret starting from the 5th string)
Note, as stated above, this is quite different from Bbsus2: x13311

An alternative is to play it up high (less of a stretch):

68(10)966

where (10) = tenth fret

EDIT: Now I remember why A2 sounded so familiar. James Taylor uses it in "Secret of Life". Very pretty chord :)

[Bryan T]

I don't think they're the same thing.

A2: x02420 (much "prettier" to my ears)


So you interpret A2 to mean Aadd9? As you can see in this thread, others think it means Asus2. It shouldn't mean both and we already have names for the two candidates, so why use the name "A2" at all?

[mmmaak]

So you interpret A2 to mean Aadd9? As you can see in this thread, others think it means Asus2. It shouldn't mean both and we already have names for the other two, so why use the name "A2" at all?

I don't call it A2 myself (as you said, it should be Aadd9). But I thought A2 was a common "colloquial" name? Perhaps not :D

http://www.hobby-hour.com/guitar/chords.php?chord=a2

(I have little proper education in formal theory, by the way, so feel free to point out any errors)

[Bryan T]

I don't call it A2 myself (as you said, it should be Aadd9). But I thought A2 was a common "colloquial" name? Perhaps not :D

http://www.hobby-hour.com/guitar/chords.php?chord=a2

(I have little proper education in formal theory, by the way, so feel free to point out any errors)

And here's one that says A2 is Asus2:

http://pwarchive.com/resources/fingering.aspx?Chord=A2

Ambiguous and potentially confusing, in my opinion.

As I said, this is just my own pet peeve. Other folks use these terms for writing charts and never think twice about it. Maybe some folks who read through this thread now will.

[mmmaak]

And here's one that says A2 is Asus2:

http://pwarchive.com/resources/fingering.aspx?Chord=A2

Ambiguous and potentially confusing, in my opinion.

As I said, this is just my own pet peeve. Other folks use these terms for writing charts and never think twice about it. Maybe some folks who read through this thread now will.

Point well-taken. So, to the OP: Which "sound" are you looking for? Aadd9 or Asus2?

[ljguitar]

Point well-taken. So, to the OP: Which "sound" are you looking for? Aadd9 or Asus2?
Hi mmmmmm...
The original poster asked about Bb2, not A2, Asus, or Aadd9, or any of the at least 3 inversions available for each.

[mmmaak]

Hi mmmmmm...
The original poster asked about Bb2, not A2, Asus, or Aadd9, or any of the at least 3 inversions available for each.

That's why I was referring to the "sound" and not the specific chord. OK, I'll rephrase my question :D

Which "sound" are you looking for? Bbadd9 or Bbsus2?
As Bryan T has shown, Bb2 may mean either.

[ewalling]

Erm, isn't "A2", if this is bona fide musical term, the same as the more widely used "A9"?

[ljguitar]

Erm, isn't "A2", if this is bona fide musical term, the same as the more widely used "A9"?
Hi ew...
No, technically the intervals would be an octave apart (between 9 & 2).

A true ''2'' chord with the root in the bass would have some challenging fingering options in standard tuning...because it would include the root and the note one step above it then the third and fifth...much easier to play clusters like these on keyboards than guitars...

And most chord tools don't list the ''2'' muchless the ''sus2'' (out of 4 solid chord programs I own, only one lists the sus2 and none list a straight 2 chord in maj, or min, seventh, or dim configurations)

[ewalling]

Hi ew...
No, technically the intervals would be an octave apart (between 9 & 2).

A true ''2'' chord with the root in the bass would have some challenging fingering options in standard tuning...because it would include the root and the note one step above it then the third and fifth...much easier to play clusters like these on keyboards than guitars...

And most chord tools don't list the ''2'' muchless the ''sus2'' (out of 4 solid chord programs I own, only one lists the sus2 and none list a straight 2 chord in maj, or min, seventh, or dim configurations)

Hi Larry,
That's interesting. I just assumed the same principle for 7th chords, where the 7th can appear at different positions in the chord, from the bass strings up to the trebles. would hold for 9ths and 13ths too.

[Bryan T]

Erm, isn't "A2", if this is bona fide musical term, the same as the more widely used "A9"?

A2 definitely isn't an A9, at least not on any charts I've seen. That would be a little too James Brown for a praise band. :)

[ljguitar]

A2 definitely isn't an A9, at least not on any charts I've seen. That would be a little too James Brown for a praise band. :)
Hi Bryan...
There is a lot of variety in Praise Bands and with horns a ''2'' chord could make a nice note cluster with two saxes and a trumpet or trombone...

[vac4873]

OK, I can't stand it...I don't post very often here, but this discussion is too interesting not to throw my 2 cents into.

I think the number of posts and differing interpretations supports Brian T's assertion that the "2" designation (Bb2 or A2 or whatever) is ambiguous.

Here's my take: a suspended chord implies that the composer has chosen not to expose the major or minor tonality of the chord. This means that the 3rd scale degree (in the case of Bb, "D", in the case of A, "C#) will not be played. Ironically, this adds a certain "ambiguity" to the chord.

An add 9 includes both the 2nd and 3rd scale degrees to the chord. As Larry mentioned, technically the 2nd degree should be voiced abovethe third for the chord to officially be an add 9, but modern ears have become accustomed to hearing it clustered right in between the tonic and the third, and if you have a bass player it technically is an octave above the fundamental 3rd.

The 9th means, at least to us "old schoolers", that we are playing a dominant 7th chord with the second scale degree inserted in the octave above the (flatted) seventh, hence the James Brown/ horn shout inferences.

As far as practical application, this rule of thumb seems to work for me:
If the chord is being substituted for a minor chord, always leave the third out, if it is being substituted for a major chord, it doesn't really matter, exception: if you are doing a "voice leading" progression, it should mirror whatever its context implies.

Examples: I'm going to use two variants of a very common modern progression that I've seen notated with the "2" designation. I probably know between 25 and 50 worship songs alone that use this formula, and at least that many other modern songs that employ it.

Progression: C G A2 F - Don't play the third. This is a variant (in different keys) used recently.

Progression: G D(sus4) Em C2 - this is another more common variant on the same progression in another key. Most players finger this 3-2-0-0-3-3, x-x-0-2-3-2 or (3), 0-2-2-0-3-3 (technically an Em7), x-3-2-0-3-3. In this case, the C being played is actually a C add 9. The fingering for C sus 2 would be x-3-0-0-3-3. However, if you play this progression both ways and listen carefully, you will find that when you play the sus 2, there seems to be something missing (at least to my ear - your results may vary). This is because the "E" which is the major third in the C chord has a voice leading that implies some finality and a "hankering" to return to the D which is in the G chord. Try it.

The bottom line for me is the rule is the same for reading it as applies to any other reading --- context, context, context.

Matt

[cb56]

Can I post a simple explanation that I believe is correct.

Cadd9 is CEGD
contains the Maj. 3rd and the ninth.

C2 the 2nd replaces the 3rd CDG
don't know why the C2 isn't called Sus2 unless maybe Sus2 implies resolution of the 2 to the major 3rd in the next chord CSus2 resolves to C Maj. Just a guess on that one.

C9 of course implies that there is a dominant 7th also
CEG Bb D

btw I think I'm saying the same thing as vac4873 context, context ...

[dthumb]

Can I post a simple explanation that I believe is correct.

Cadd9 is CEGD
contains the Maj. 3rd and the ninth.

C2 the 2nd replaces the 3rd CDG
don't know why the C2 isn't called Sus2 unless maybe Sus2 implies resolution of the 2 to the major 3rd in the next chord CSus2 resolves to C Maj. Just a guess on that one.

C9 of course implies that there is a dominant 7th also
CEG Bb D

btw I think I'm saying the same thing as vac4873 context, context ...

Hmmm,....I love the "nomenclature game"..:D

Lets see,.....seems the "2" in a "C" would be a "D", no? and the "9" would imply a 7th or A# HOWEVER,...implied and played are not necessarily the same. Context, as mentioned is EVERYTHING.

So, C7 add 9 tells us we NEED the 7th..C9 says "maybe" and C2 could substitute for C9 in the proper context..like Amin and C or D and Bmin 7th at times and with certain fingerings..

It takes very few notes to "imply" a harmonizing chord..a root and its additives (2,4,7,dim,aug, etc) represented will often do the trick..adding more information MAY even be hazardous...or necessary....context, again.
FWIW, Robben Ford does an excellent master class of just that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGhiRie4V_k enjoy!:)

[cb56]

Oh well I tried.
Plain and simple, a 2 chord contains no 3rd, be it major or minor.

[Bryan T]

Oh well I tried.
Plain and simple, a 2 chord contains no 3rd, be it major or minor.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, that is not always true. Some folks will see C2 and play Cadd9, which has a third. Some will see D2 and play Dsus2, which omits the third. Same notation, different interpretation.

[cb56]

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, that is not always true. Some folks will see C2 and play Cadd9, which has a third.
That may be true but, if they see a C2 and play a Cadd9 they are playing a different chord. It may sound fine there, but it is a different chord.

Some will see D2 and play Dsus2, which omits the third. Same notation, different interpretation.
Actually it replaces the 3rd with the 2nd but otherwise ....
correct if they see a D2 and play a Dsus2 it's the same chord called by a different name.

[dthumb]

That may be true but, if they see a C2 and play a Cadd9 they are playing a different chord. It may sound fine there, but it is a different chord.


Actually it replaces the 3rd with the 2nd but otherwise ....
correct if they see a D2 and play a Dsus2 it's the same chord called by a different name.

A C2 cannot be a Cmin IF the 3rd is replaced with the D....a C2 is a C2 and could be played with or without the 3rd while the C9 would indicate a raised/higher toned 9 and a C7 add 9 would imply playing all notes....at least to me anyway..and it seems to work when I use that same logic to play others' notations...usually.;)